FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Thanks, I'll give it a try later today.
Last night I played 2 games after adjusting pitch speed to 4 and human timing to 6.
I lost the first game 5-3, got 6 hits and hit my first homerun. But I only got K'd twice.
I lost the second game 6-5 but got 13 hits and got k'd 7 times.

If it were me, i would have dropped Timing, instead of raising it, to coincide with lower pitch speed. Since you were getting 7-8 K's per game before (i think?), then simply lowering pitch speed alone, or timing alone, either one should lower strikeouts per game just by itself. If you both lower pitch speed and raise timing, it may lower K's to an unrealistic level, maybe even near 5 per game. Just some thoughts. (It did for me when i tested different combos). Or, you may just consider keeping Timing at 5 if you lower pitch speed to 4. Or have Timing at 6 and leave pitch speed at 5.

These are just thoughts. You will have a better idea as you get a larger sample size.

[sublime55]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

How are y'alls whiff rates looking? Both my and the CPU's whiff rates tend to hover around 10-12%. I use the sliders as is, but have both CPU and User timing set to 0. Not really sure what else I can do other than swing more and pitch to the edges more? (although I already pitch around as much as possible)

[BigMo8232]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

How are y'alls whiff rates looking? Both my and the CPU's whiff rates tend to hover around 10-12%. I use the sliders as is, but have both CPU and User timing set to 0. Not really sure what else I can do other than swing more and pitch to the edges more? (although I already pitch around as much as possible)

Thats one of the things im messing around with too. I whiff just fine but thats cause I use analog and dont have control over the PCI placement. But the CPU PCI covers most of the plate so Timing will not affect whiffs as much as early/late contact. I am messing around a few games with the following adjustments to see what effect it has.

CPU Contact 0
CPU Power 7
CPU Timing 0
CPU Solid Hits 10
CPU Foul Frequency 6 or 7 (whatever the orginal set has posted, I haven't changed this)

[FenwayMac]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

How are y'alls whiff rates looking? Both my and the CPU's whiff rates tend to hover around 10-12%. I use the sliders as is, but have both CPU and User timing set to 0. Not really sure what else I can do other than swing more and pitch to the edges more? (although I already pitch around as much as possible)

My rates have been in the low 30’s for myself and low 20’s for the CPU. Right where I want them to be. Not sure that goes into misses, but from a pitching perspective I seem to get more misses when on it only vary my pitch patterns and locations, but also the velocity I throw with. I have seen some pretty knarley misses when I do this. I also have to believe that my pitchers abilities as play a role in misses.

On the hitting side (assuming you use zone?) I would increase pitch speeds as well as increase CPU control and consistency to make the CPU throw tougher pitches (more on the black, tougher to track locations).

If this does not work, try shutting one eye when you hit.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Nolan 40% overall or just for you? I ask because line drive percentage would more accurately be controlled by the power slider. In my testing for the last two years with just timing/solid hits I have payed more attention to the hitter feedback box than game stats. With sliders I'm am trying to completely eliminate any "algorithm" determining how many hits, line drives, pop ups, grounders, strike outs and walks exist in an individual game. I want the outcome to be 100% my input and the player stats. With this said, when solid hits is anything less than 10 you can see in the batter feed back a pitch, in the zone, where the PCI perfectly covers the ball, Timing that is good/perfect and it will produce weak contact. This should never happen in a game cause it would never happen in real life unless it was a check swing or contact outside of the zone. That's what led me to test this in the first place. However the timing would need to be zero, 1 or at most two to combat the bloated rate of hits that would occur on 3 or higher timing. I like zero cause of the challenge but if it was too difficult for some this could be bumped up to accommodate for controller ability on any hitting interface (zone, directional, pure analaog).

Spoiler

I do love looking at the stats, however I do not want the game to decide "Ok we are supposed to have an average of 20% line drives so lets drop one now" When the onscreen feedback shows the PCI wasnt even close and the timing was late or early. Thats a random roll experience and, at least for me personally, not what I am looking for with this set. When Im pitching and im executing it should produce results not feel like a random roll in my opinion. I will say I love this set and as far as that goes this feels damn close to producing a simulated result. I guess me personally I dont want the stats to meet the averages I want the stats to point out any weekness in the sliders so adjustments can be made.

I am messing around with a couple of other tweaks (up/down one spot) that I will share soon if I see a result that benefits the group here. Then I am starting a franchise with the Cubs using the just realsed OSFM roster post trade deadline. I want to spend some time learning the spread sheets shared in the first post before I start. Because once I do, I will make zero slider adjustments for the entire season. I am also thinking of just showing each months results so its a larger sample and only 6 batches of data unless of course I make the playoffs lol.

Lastly, is the reason the CPU PCI is so large/covers so much of the zone because we are on legend? I know for human players increasing/decreasing contact will increase/decrease the PCI size somewhat (unless I'm mistaken about that). Before coming to this thread I had never played above all star and I'm wanting to workshop something if the answer to my question is yes.

I didn't hit with timing 0, solid hits 10, because my hitting stats/percentages/frequencies have literally been perfect (if not - reeeeeeeeallllly close) across the board. Im not just saying that. As a statistics stickler, i couldn't ask for better. And every instance of PCI feedback correlates to exactly what happened. I literally never ever see Good timing with a well placed PCI make weak contact. I take lots and lots (and lots) of feedback screenshots and their replay results throughout games and compare them, and they are always how i expect them to look, just based on the play, before i even see the feedback. So i have zero issues with Feedback. I dont feel like the game is dropping in a line drive to even out batted ball types. If i saw that i would be reevaluating immediately. When i square up a ball on feedback, its usually a line drive, or if not, its at least well-hit somewhere.

The 40% question on line drives was for CPU hitting only. Most balls that came off the bat were line drives, or near-line drives (like ground balls that the first bounce was near the infielders, or fly balls with low trajectory). I know that the Power slider at one time seemed to move trajectories more toward line drives or more toward fly balls but i dont see this to be the case anymore, after constant testing for 3 to 4 months (over 300 offensive games). I see a direct measurable difference in line drives, just by moving the Solid Hits slider (Contact plays into it too - but i haven't moved Contact in a long time).

The Power slider, in my testing, results in harder hit balls (exit velocities) no matter the trajectory, but doesn't really seem to play a big role in trajectory. Ground balls are hit harder, line drives are hit harder, and fly balls are hit harder. But the trajectory governed by PCI placement, and the solid hits slider (with contact/pci size being a factor as well).

So that's where i am on it, as i don't see the good contact/ weak PCI outcomes. Therefore i can rely on visuals/gameplay and numbers more.

Now - i only played 2 games with Timing 0 (its always at 0 for me) and Solid Hits 10. So, very small sample size. What i usually do in testing is form a hypothesis of what i expect to see during this game (or x number of games). Then play the game to test the hypothesis. If my hypothesis seems true, i repeat the test. If my expectations are met again i usually will back-burner that test (not throw it out).

I am not saying your method doesn't work! (i really hope i didn't come across as that! Sometimes its difficult to type out one's take on something without it seeming dismissive or rude. If it did its not my intent! ) It just didn't fit what i would want to see in a really small sample size. I may go back to it later and get completely different results!

[BigMo8232]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Now - i only played 2 games with Timing 0 (its always at 0 for me) and Solid Hits 10. So, very small sample size. What i usually do in testing is form a hypothesis of what i expect to see during this game (or x number of games). Then play the game to test the hypothesis. If my hypothesis seems true, i repeat the test. If my expectations are met again i usually will back-burner that test (not throw it out).

I am not saying your method doesn't work! (i really hope i didn't come across as that! Sometimes its difficult to type out one's take on something without it seeming dismissive or rude. If it did its not my intent! ) It just didn't fit what i would want to see in a really small sample size. I may go back to it later and get completely different results!

You didn't come across that way at all. One of the hardest parts about being an analog player is it really is a different experience from the other input types which is probably why so many have given up on it. So I dont get the chance to get feedback a lot or workshop other ideas cause no one else is seeing what Im seeing and vice versa. I have been looking for a work around for years before last year in 17 I decided to try 0 Timing and 10 Solid Hits and that was my only major change. I have a similar approach to hypothesis testing. And Im really interested in the CPU hitting, I love unlocking the underbelly of this game to try and find what possibilities exist. Im actually at a point where my sliders are set save for my few changes but now im trying all kinds of wild things just to see what they do so I can better understand how the game reacts. Very fun stuff lol.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

You didn't come across that way at all. One of the hardest parts about being an analog player is it really is a different experience from the other input types which is probably why so many have given up on it. So I dont get the chance to get feedback a lot or workshop other ideas cause no one else is seeing what Im seeing and vice versa. I have been looking for a work around for years before last year in 17 I decided to try 0 Timing and 10 Solid Hits and that was my only major change. I have a similar approach to hypothesis testing. And Im really interested in the CPU hitting, I love unlocking the underbelly of this game to try and find what possibilities exist. Im actually at a point where my sliders are set save for my few changes but now im trying all kinds of wild things just to see what they do so I can better understand how the game reacts. Very fun stuff lol.

I agree i have tables, charts, spreadsheets etc, with slider settings at all different extremes. Some people call it slideritis. I call it science haha. And fun.

I did play one full season with all interfaces being analog and had a blast. I did love analog hitting, but ended up changing to zone only for the hitting approaches it offers. It got me closest to when i was actually playing and in the batter's box. But i do miss the pull down hitch and swing up mechanic.

As far as pitching and fielding, i still use Analog. I think it's the most underrated and overlooked interface in the game. When i am anticipating the Show to be released every year, the pitching mechanic is what i look forward to more than anything else.

Human Pitching/CPU Hitting is the only thing not 100% locked in for me, although it's close. Everything plays well, and stats line up well, but i am still tweaking just for good measure.

[BigMo8232]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

See that's funny to me cause I played ball as well and zone is the least like the real thing to me lol. When I stood in the batters box and the pitcher released the pitch I didnt stand there thinking I had to swing in the upper right corner in order to hit it. I just watched the ball leave his hand, I followed it on its way to me and my hand eye cordination took over from there. Now I do conceed that zone requires the same kind of hand eye cordination however like any other "mini" game in a sports game it can be mastered. And I grew bored with it. Analog Hitting and pitching is the only thing in any sports game that feels realistic in that some days im on time and landing things consistently and then the next I cant time anything right.

[BigMo8232]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Human Pitching/CPU Hitting is the only thing not 100% locked in for me, although it's close.

Yeah Human Pitching was easier for me cause its just Control and Consistency. And the first thing I tried was Consistency at 10 and Control at 0 thinking if I landed the Analog meter perfectly it would pitch where I aimed but it wasnt even close. In fact it was so bad I couldnt play the whole game that way lol. So I flipped them after three innings and that was the sweet spot. It maximized the analog input and when i landed the analog meter the pitch was close if not on and the variations where in the player stats. meaning it was more accurate with better pitchers. With lesser pitchers it was much harder even when landing the analog meter on the nose.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

See that's funny to me cause I played ball as well and zone is the least like the real thing to me lol. When I stood in the batters box and the pitcher released the pitch I didnt stand there thinking I had to swing in the upper right corner in order to hit it. I just watched the ball leave his hand, I followed it on its way to me and my hand eye cordination took over from there. Now I do conceed that zone requires the same kind of hand eye cordination however like any other "mini" game in a sports game it can be mastered. And I grew bored with it. Analog Hitting and pitching is the only thing in any sports game that feels realistic in that some days im on time and landing things consistently and then the next I cant time anything right.

Lol yeah that is weird. I never got anything close to that feeling of "in the box" realism from the other interfaces. But im glad theyre in the game, and i think they are all fun and produce good results. What you described as a real life way to hit, is actually exactly why i like zone. Its not simply thinking i need to swing in upper right or whatever to hit it.

However, very few hitters at the MLB level are strictly read and react hitters. Most will tell you they can only truly cover a small area of the plate. This is "their pitch." And its where batting averages go up. (And averages plummet with 2 strikes when they have to cover the whole plate) Slumps also happen when they get away from this early in counts. And many old school coaches and players used to focus on mechanics during slumps. Finally many started focusing on approach instead, and pitch selection, which was the real problem. Odor is a prime example of this this year. He caught absolute fire after he got back to hitting "his" pitch and taking everything else.

The vast majority of MLB hitters look for a fastball in x location, or x quadrant, etc. and they react to offspeed. The saying is "hit your pitch, until the pitcher forces you to hit theirs (with 2 strikes)". Clearly that patience is easier said than done (which is why MLB batting average is below .250) A few elite players can just follow the ball and have success hitting different locations. This "hit your pitch" is also how i learned, and taught, to hit. To me, i can only get that "plate coverage" feel from zone.

Im just glad they give us options so we can all be happy!

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Yeah Human Pitching was easier for me cause its just Control and Consistency. And the first thing I tried was Consistency at 10 and Control at 0 thinking if I landed the Analog meter perfectly it would pitch where I aimed but it wasnt even close. In fact it was so bad I couldnt play the whole game that way lol. So I flipped them after three innings and that was the sweet spot. It maximized the analog input and when i landed the analog meter the pitch was close if not on and the variations where in the player stats. meaning it was more accurate with better pitchers. With lesser pitchers it was much harder even when landing the analog meter on the nose.

Now that i actually liked. 10 and 0. I felt like it did pretty good in the two games i played. I may try it some more to see how it goes, and play with CPU hitting and see what happens.

[BigMo8232]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

However, very few hitters at the MLB level are strictly read and react hitters. Most will tell you they can only truly cover a small area of the plate. This is "their pitch." And its where batting averages go up. (And averages plummet with 2 strikes when they have to cover the whole plate) Slumps also happen when they get away from this early in counts. And many old school coaches and players used to focus on mechanics during slumps. Finally many started focusing on approach instead, and pitch selection, which was the real problem. Odor is a prime example of this this year. He caught absolute fire after he got back to hitting "his" pitch and taking everything else.

The vast majority of MLB hitters look for a fastball in x location, or x quadrant, etc. and they react to offspeed. The saying is "hit your pitch, until the pitcher forces you to hit theirs (with 2 strikes)". Clearly that patience is easier said than done (which is why MLB batting average is below .250) A few elite players can just follow the ball and have success hitting different locations. This "hit your pitch" is also how i learned, and taught, to hit. To me, i can only get that "plate coverage" feel from zone.

And see I have to do the exact same thing with analog lol, but it feels more fluid for me than moving a PCI around the zone. Because I play with much higher fastball and off speed pitch speeds I cant cover the whole zone anyway there simply inst enough time to react. My first priority is not to chase. Which allows me to walk probably more than most but playing on the higher speed settings forces me to look for a fastball or offspeed and if I guess wrong then I'm punished for it. This was my same approach as a real life player. Then I have an idea of where I may be pitched based on my own personal experience as well as paying attention to what the pitcher has been doing in the game. One of the reason I am enjoying Legend difficulty so much is it has made Pure Analog so much more difficult and keeps me on my toes. But since I don't control the PCI, I can still have a swing and miss when my guess(No I do not play with guess pitch turned on) is right and my timing is there. This is the human element in the game for me. Sometimes you know whats coming and you still swing and miss and I never get that on zone cause if the PCI is over the ball then its contact. I just eventually got to where I was hitting everything on zone unless I was turning so many things all the way down and it just stopped being fun and started to feel like Madden used to feel when you ran the same plays over and over with positive results. So its seems like a Potato/Potata situation lol.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Sometimes you know whats coming and you still swing and miss and I never get that on zone cause if the PCI is over the ball then its contact. I just eventually got to where I was hitting everything on zone unless I was turning so many things all the way down and it just stopped being fun and started to feel like Madden used to feel when you ran the same plays over and over with positive results. So its seems like a Potato/Potata situation lol.

Lol Tomato Tomoto. I went to Zone a long long time ago (not in a galaxy far away) and fell in love. And i swing and miss a LOT on zone. Even when i know whats coming. Now, in the past i used to play on HOF and zone is too easy, i will give you that. I could hit everything and rarely struck out. It wasn't that i "mastered" as much as it was just too easy from the start, once you learned it. But Legend is an entirely different ball of wax. Its like going from arcade baseball to realistic baseball. I haven't gotten any better at it mechanically and i dont think i will, because it's more strategy based than just move the pci and swing. I can't play on Legend and talk to my wife, or let my mind drift at all. I am constantly having to think of my hitting approach, the pitcher, etc. And I spend about 30 minutes evaluating what each player did after each AB, and after 5 games, 10 games stretches, etc, to see who is "seeing the ball well" so to speak and who is not (Many times its not what i expected, once i look at their personal stats and percentages over x time frame. Sometimes i realize a hot player isn't hot at all. And sometimes who i thought was cold, has actually heated up, over x amount of games).

Moving on from interface, one thing i do differently is my approach is totally different between each and every player. Like between Andrus and Deshields, Beltre and Mazara, Choo and Odor, Gallo and... ok you get the idea lol. I have had to develop different hitting approaches, aggression factors, patience, pitch selection, and plans with each differennt hitter. And i evaluate their performance over 5, 10, 20+ etc game stretches to make sure their 1st pitch swing% is in check for their plan, for example. (there are different targets for different players according to their attributes, and performance) , as well as strikes looking, and swing rate, fly ball/ pop up rate (this is invaluable) etc. I Love this part of the game. When i get away from my plan (sometimes even a little bit) for certain players it often shows in their production. So i have to make adjustments for that player. It may be PCI adjustments, patience adjustments, pitch selection, etc. Sometimes i get into bad habits with one player and don't realize it, but i am right on top of the plan with another player. Having different roles for each and every player, not just a few, just adds another level of immersion and fun and player uniqueness to the game. And - i am never in a strictly "Human" slump across the entire lineup, since i am not just hitting like "me" with small adjustments for different player types, but i am constantly changing styles, according to each individual player at the plate.

Sorry about all that lol i just like talking about it. Feel free to skim (i should have told you that before you read it --evil laugh--). I just can't say enough good about the Show 18. I feel bad for the guys who chose to skip it this year, and play 17 or 16. This is the game I've hoped for for years. Yes, they could shore up on some little things, but it's going to be hard for me to actually move to MLB the Show 19, for the first time ever. I hope they keep hitting as-is, and just fix the little annoying junk that pops up now and then. It always makes me nervous that they will try to "fix" what isn't broken (i believe we have already seen them do this this year)
But to say the least, I am amazed every day by this game!

[Brewers 15]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Nolanryansnowmonkey I have been following your conversation and as an analog player for years I unfortunately have not been able to find anything that has worked for me this year to the point where I actually have went back to 17 . I have seen everyone say how great 18 is and I feel like I am playing a totally different game!! The past several years I have used Fenway’s sliders and had always liked them very much anyways I was wondering if you would be so kind to post exactly what settings you are using with analog ? I don’t mean to hyjack Fenway’s post here so I apologize !! But I really need some help as I have now played over 200 games on 18 and never have had good results over large sample sizes . Thanks !!

[FenwayMac]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Nolanryansnowmonkey I have been following your conversation and as an analog player for years I unfortunately have not been able to find anything that has worked for me this year to the point where I actually have went back to 17 . I have seen everyone say how great 18 is and I feel like I am playing a totally different game!! The past several years I have used Fenway’s sliders and had always liked them very much anyways I was wondering if you would be so kind to post exactly what settings you are using with analog ? I don’t mean to hyjack Fenway’s post here so I apologize !! But I really need some help as I have now played over 200 games on 18 and never have had good results over large sample sizes . Thanks !!

Oh, I popped up a bag of popcorn several posts ago. By all means!