FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

[Cliffking]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

The power slider is basically determined by the percentages of singles, doubles, triples, and home runs. When I was testing on lower levels I found the CPU was singles-heavy. The combo of contact at 2 and power at 7 balances is out, although this is over a decent sample size. You will get games where the CPU smashes everything.

Hey Fenway, not sure if you're still testing the solid hits slider, but i like it where was before the testing. With the lower solid hits, I've been struggling to make solid contact and my team's offense is pretty elite

[FenwayMac]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Hey Fenway, not sure if you're still testing the solid hits slider, but i like it where was before the testing. With the lower solid hits, I've been struggling to make solid contact and my team's offense is pretty elite

I only have three games in so far with solid hits st four. I have not noticed much of a change to this point, still hitting home runs and doubles, FB and FB rates seem unchanged. Need more games, but overall for lack of a reason to change, you should stick with 5 if it works!

[FenwayMac]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

a quick update. As mentioned in previous post I have completed three games with solid hits at four. I want to get ar least 10 in before deciding, but at the moment the changes seem somewhat negligible. My FB LD and GB rates remain unchanged to this point. I will say that I feel that hit variety has increased as I have seen some pretty cool hits that I don’t feel I see or see very often. Need more sample though.

I have to wonder if a slider like solid hits are more meant for interfaces like directional hitting where PCI does placement does not necessarily control outcome as much. So if I am getting under the ball more often than on top of the ball, that is pretty much going to remain constant regardless of where solid hits is set. Where it might play more of a role though is contact quality. I wouldn’t want to square up a ball and get weak contact just because my solid hits slider is set lower.

I also wonder if HUM foul ball percentage is more designed for directional hitting as well. It would explain why I continue to see lower foul ball percentages than the CPU with a lot more variation from game to game. The CPU foul rates is typically 15-17 percent where mine varies wildly from 8-22 percent. If it is most zone PCI determining foul hits the the foul ball slider is mostly worthless.

[Cliffking]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

a quick update. As mentioned in previous post I have completed three games with solid hits at four. I want to get ar least 10 in before deciding, but at the moment the changes seem somewhat negligible. My FB LD and GB rates remain unchanged to this point. I will say that I feel that hit variety has increased as I have seen some pretty cool hits that I don’t feel I see or see very often. Need more sample though.

I have to wonder if a slider like solid hits are more meant for interfaces like directional hitting where PCI does placement does not necessarily control outcome as much. So if I am getting under the ball more often than on top of the ball, that is pretty much going to remain constant regardless of where solid hits is set. Where it might play more of a role though is contact quality. I wouldn’t want to square up a ball and get weak contact just because my solid hits slider is set lower.

I also wonder if HUM foul ball percentage is more designed for directional hitting as well. It would explain why I continue to see lower foul ball percentages than the CPU with a lot more variation from game to game. The CPU foul rates is typically 15-17 percent where mine varies wildly from 8-22 percent. If it is most zone PCI determining foul hits the the foul ball slider is mostly worthless.

thanks for the response and follow up

[Cliffking]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

So, I played 10 games with the sliders.
Won 2 and lost 8...but got shutout 5 times.
I'm batting .150 and haven't hit a homerun.
My era is about 4.65.
So, it's pretty obvious that I' not good enough.
What slider changes would you guys recommend to improve my hitting ?

Thanks !

Before you change any sliders, try the following strategy. I've improved my average and hitting about .255 as a team.

0-0, 2-0, 3-0, 3-1 counts- leave PCI dead center. Only swing if the pitch is right down the middle

0-1, 1-1, 2-1 counts- pick any quadrant of the zone pre-pitch. stay in that quadrant and only swing if the ball is thrown there. you can use a variety of factors to determine where to place the quadrant (pitcher's tendencies, hitter's strengths, hitting strategy [sac fly, ground ball])

2 strike counts- i utilize Fenway's (or Nolan's) strategy of placing the PCI right at the point of the pitcher's release and trying to follow the ball

See if this works for you.

Your ERA is not too inflated.

[KBLover]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Where it might play more of a role though is contact quality. I wouldn’t want to square up a ball and get weak contact just because my solid hits slider is set lower.

I think that's just what it does. Directional is still using the PCI, it's just that Zone might give more likelihood for a more accurate placement. Ideally, a good Zone hitter would get more solid contact because of PCI control (more near to the center) so Solid Hits would impact more the situation you describe...good PCI placement and still getting too much Weak contact, since other situations (edge contact with PCI) would be less likely in theory with a good Zone hitter.

Should those occur - Solid Hits still does its thing, imo. Just that the base odds, so to speak, would trend towards Weak instead of Good, which is true regardless of interface, imo.

I also wonder if HUM foul ball percentage is more designed for directional hitting as well. It would explain why I continue to see lower foul ball percentages than the CPU with a lot more variation from game to game. The CPU foul rates is typically 15-17 percent where mine varies wildly from 8-22 percent. If it is most zone PCI determining foul hits the the foul ball slider is mostly worthless.

Foul Frequency doesn't create fouls. It's the gray area between whiff and contact (which is likely to be foul if it's so bad that it falls in this category).

In theory, it increases fouls because it decreases outright misses on bad swings (be it for timing or location/PCI or K/9 and/or Movement rating). It would still be viable for Zone because of the timing component to a swing also influences whiff/contact and direction.

It also seems to impact how much of the timing window is "used up" by this "gray area". I notice that, all other sliders equal, raising Foul Frequency increases my offense across the board (more hits, higher BABIP, xbhs, runs, without getting fewer K's). What I'm guessing is that only my best/good swings are staying in the field of play. Others fall into the "gray area" where they might be fouls instead of weakly hit in-play contact which is usually easier to turn into an out.

If this is true, it creates an interesting dynamic between timing window (Timing Slider, Contact rating) and Foul Frequency.

If the Zone player is good, then less gray area with PCI location is likely. Timing would depend on getting fooled or no and by how much. So I would agree that player would tend to see fewer fouls on average. I wouldn't say it's designed for Directional, just that a no-control-over-PCI interface will have more opportunities for it to express itself...assuming competent skill with PCI control.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

I have to wonder if a slider like solid hits are more meant for interfaces like directional hitting where PCI does placement does not necessarily control outcome as much. So if I am getting under the ball more often than on top of the ball, that is pretty much going to remain constant regardless of where solid hits is set. Where it might play more of a role though is contact quality. I wouldn’t want to square up a ball and get weak contact just because my solid hits slider is set lower.

I also wonder if HUM foul ball percentage is more designed for directional hitting as well. It would explain why I continue to see lower foul ball percentages than the CPU with a lot more variation from game to game. The CPU foul rates is typically 15-17 percent where mine varies wildly from 8-22 percent. If it is most zone PCI determining foul hits the the foul ball slider is mostly worthless.

As far as Solid Hits go, i did a lot of testing with it early on. While it naturally will have 'more' effect in Directional, etc, since it isn't dependent on human imput, it still has a fairly significant effect in zone. (The solid hits portion of good contact is affected) With solid hits at 3, i averaged 13 to 16% Line Drives. At 4, it settled in around 18.7 to 19%. With Solid Hits at 5, i am at 20.8% Line Drives.

As far as foul ball rate, it is going to vary quite a bit game to game. I wouldn't worry about that, as much as overall. To me it is not dependent on PCI only. I have seen a noticeable difference (although just a small percentage jump per notch.)

I have played half of my games with Human Foul Frequency at 10 (and another 17 more games in another franchise) and was getting just over 20% Foul Ball rate in both leagues, at 10FF. Since then, i have lowered FF to 8 and 9, and saw approx 17-18%. Overall for the season,, my Foul percentage is 18.8%, which is near perfect (using 10,9,8) right now i am at 9 FF.

For CPU, they are somehow also at exactly 18.8% over four different FF settings. I have been at 10, 7, 9, 8 with Foul Frequency in that order. Half of my games were at 7 FF, with 17.3% fouls. At 9, 10 they were above 20%. I have settled in at 8 FF for the last 4 games, and so far getting 19% fouls.

So i most definitely, consistently see a measurable difference in percentages using different slider settings for both Foul Frequency and Solid Hits sliders. (Line Drive rate seems to take longer to even out, as i have played stretches of high line drive rate, but over time it settled in to the numbers listed above).

I of course can only speak for my observations. But your Human Foul Frequency seems consistent with the small drop in percentage i see, per notch in the slider (a bit less than 1% per notch it seems). But in well over 200 or 300 games of testing, it definitely shows.

[BigMo8232]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

a quick update. As mentioned in previous post I have completed three games with solid hits at four. I want to get ar least 10 in before deciding, but at the moment the changes seem somewhat negligible. My FB LD and GB rates remain unchanged to this point. I will say that I feel that hit variety has increased as I have seen some pretty cool hits that I don’t feel I see or see very often. Need more sample though.

I have to wonder if a slider like solid hits are more meant for interfaces like directional hitting where PCI does placement does not necessarily control outcome as much. So if I am getting under the ball more often than on top of the ball, that is pretty much going to remain constant regardless of where solid hits is set. Where it might play more of a role though is contact quality. I wouldn’t want to square up a ball and get weak contact just because my solid hits slider is set lower.

I also wonder if HUM foul ball percentage is more designed for directional hitting as well. It would explain why I continue to see lower foul ball percentages than the CPU with a lot more variation from game to game. The CPU foul rates is typically 15-17 percent where mine varies wildly from 8-22 percent. If it is most zone PCI determining foul hits the the foul ball slider is mostly worthless.

Fenway now you are in my wheel house lol. Solid hits is a slider I personally feel shouldn't be in the game at all but it is. A perfectly timed squared up hit should be solid contact, period. No matter what interface you use. The only way to accomplish this is to put the solid hits at 10. However it is to easy to square up hits and the stats/results will be way to high. Which is why I pair it with a timing of 0 so the two counter each other out. You are rewarded for a well timed hit with accurate placement but your window to do that is so small it doesn't feel easy at all. After all we are playing on legend lol. A solid hit ball also doesn't always mean its a hit, more often than not its a hard out cause the timing window is so small. I am now convinced this is not only true for the CPU or a Human using analog but also for directional and zone. If you are trying to create a realistic approach where timing and accurate PCI placement result in a hard hit ball (again more often than not a hard out and less often a solid hit) but not creating too many hits/homers I recommend giving this a go. You cant adjust timing and solid hits independently. Check out my game postings to see. The results are not crazy they are realistic. If you are under the ball you pop up even with solid hits at 10. If you are on top of it, then its grounder.

Solid hits and Timing are independant to contact and power. This is where it gets tricky and what interface you use is more important in reference to where contact and power are set. As an analog guy the contact slider has an effect on how accurate the PCI placement is on pure analog ( since the human player does not place the PCI this is goverened by the contact stats of the player in the game more with the slider fractionally kicking that up or down). I have found the Settings in the origianl post of this thread work well for a human pure analog player as they have for Zone. I would imagine directional as well. Power changes the extra base hit frequesncy by adding distance and velocity to balls hit. Solid Hits does not do anything to interfere with this. I posted exit velocities in many of my early games to prove this point. Uping the power slider however will add to distance of non solid hits and also the velocity of non solid hits creating more base and extra base hits.

I have been playing with the CPU Sliders mirrored to what I am playing human sliders on with great results(I shared these in a previous post). I encourage you, no matter what interface you are using to give Solid Hits at 10 and timing at 0 a try. I know for certain it will eliminate the frustration of timing a pitch and placing the PCI perfectly (zone hitting) and still getting weak contact which would never happen in a real life baseball game. There is a learning curve, it took me about three games before I began to see what Im describing to you now. It just takes timing to adjust to the new timing slider. But believe me, when you get a hit, you will feel like you earned it.

[FenwayMac]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

As far as Solid Hits go, i did a lot of testing with it early on. While it naturally will have 'more' effect in Directional, etc, since it isn't dependent on human imput, it still has a fairly significant effect in zone. (The solid hits portion of good contact is affected) With solid hits at 3, i averaged 13 to 16% Line Drives. At 4, it settled in around 18.7 to 19%. With Solid Hits at 5, i am at 20.8% Line Drives.

As far as foul ball rate, it is going to vary quite a bit game to game. I wouldn't worry about that, as much as overall. To me it is not dependent on PCI only. I have seen a noticeable difference (although just a small percentage jump per notch.)

I have played half of my games with Human Foul Frequency at 10 (and another 17 more games in another franchise) and was getting just over 20% Foul Ball rate in both leagues, at 10FF. Since then, i have lowered FF to 8 and 9, and saw approx 17-18%. Overall for the season,, my Foul percentage is 18.8%, which is near perfect (using 10,9,8) right now i am at 9 FF.

For CPU, they are somehow also at exactly 18.8% over four different FF settings. I have been at 10, 7, 9, 8 with Foul Frequency in that order. Half of my games were at 7 FF, with 17.3% fouls. At 9, 10 they were above 20%. I have settled in at 8 FF for the last 4 games, and so far getting 19% fouls.

So i most definitely, consistently see a measurable difference in percentages using different slider settings for both Foul Frequency and Solid Hits sliders. (Line Drive rate seems to take longer to even out, as i have played stretches of high line drive rate, but over time it settled in to the numbers listed above).

I of course can only speak for my observations. But your Human Foul Frequency seems consistent with the small drop in percentage i see, per notch in the slider (a bit less than 1% per notch it seems). But in well over 200 or 300 games of testing, it definitely shows.

How were FB and GB rates at solid 3,4,5?

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

How were FB and GB rates at solid 3,4,5?

Fly ball rates seemed to catch most of the former line drives. I saw fly balls as high as 50% in some test sets with low line drive%. There was not a big increase in ground balls. Part of this was probably due to pci placement, as my plate approaches and pitch selection have changed and grown better over time. But if i was only basing it on numbers alone, most weak contact moved more toward pop-ups than choppers.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

I will say this, i have to leave my Human Hitting sliders as is. I have never had the game play this realistically. I mean its dang near perfect. Keep in mind i was testing these exact hitting sliders before i saw you post this thread. And i were in love with them then. This thread solidified that for me. The only change i have made to human hitting is foul frequency.

My numbers (i recently posted my latset franchise numbers) are great. Line Drive % is perfect. Games are more realistic feeling than ever. I cant fix what isn't broken! Lol.

I did try a couple of games in a different franchise with CPU Timing at 0 and Solid Hits at 10. Statistically, it seemed fine. Numbers were realistic, etc. CPU was respectable but not overpowering. But - over that time, 40% of all balls in play were line drives (normal is 20-ish%). Granted its a small sample size.

There were about 24 line drives hit. Half of them were base hits. Other than just way too many line drives (plenty of weak ones and hard ones), it played fine, if just looking at the box scores.

[FenwayMac]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Yeah, when it comes down to it I don’t feel that too few foul balls or a few too many pop ups are deal breakers when the games are so enjoyable. I tend to get under the ball a bit is probably causing the difference. My line drives are right in line. I do like the extra hit types I feel I am seeing at solid hits 4, but not sure if I will keep it there yet.

[bullpen45]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

Before you change any sliders, try the following strategy. I've improved my average and hitting about .255 as a team.

0-0, 2-0, 3-0, 3-1 counts- leave PCI dead center. Only swing if the pitch is right down the middle

0-1, 1-1, 2-1 counts- pick any quadrant of the zone pre-pitch. stay in that quadrant and only swing if the ball is thrown there. you can use a variety of factors to determine where to place the quadrant (pitcher's tendencies, hitter's strengths, hitting strategy [sac fly, ground ball])

2 strike counts- i utilize Fenway's (or Nolan's) strategy of placing the PCI right at the point of the pitcher's release and trying to follow the ball

See if this works for you.

Your ERA is not too inflated.

Thanks, I'll give it a try later today.
Last night I played 2 games after adjusting pitch speed to 4 and human timing to 6.
I lost the first game 5-3, got 6 hits and hit my first homerun. But I only got K'd twice.
I lost the second game 6-5 but got 13 hits and got k'd 7 times.

[FenwayMac]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

I have a great series going with the Mets. Game two was a classic game in the rain. I drew nine walks...NINE, but left runners on base all game long. But I chipped away and took the lead on an opposite field single through the gap by Frazier to plate Meadows in the 8th. Also a strong all-around performance by my pitching staff as roles are far more defined now. Flexed but did not break.

The drama just continues to ramp up as these games become more and more meaningful. Having a blast. I also feel I am seeing some pretty cool new hit types that not seeing at solid hits 5. Leaning towards keeping 4 at this point, but still more games to test!

[BigMo8232]

Re: FenwayMac 2018 Legend Sliders

I did try a couple of games in a different franchise with CPU Timing at 0 and Solid Hits at 10. Statistically, it seemed fine. Numbers were realistic, etc. CPU was respectable but not overpowering. But - over that time, 40% of all balls in play were line drives (normal is 20-ish%). Granted its a small sample size.

There were about 24 line drives hit. Half of them were base hits. Other than just way too many line drives (plenty of weak ones and hard ones), it played fine, if just looking at the box scores.

Nolan 40% overall or just for you? I ask because line drive percentage would more accurately be controlled by the power slider. In my testing for the last two years with just timing/solid hits I have payed more attention to the hitter feedback box than game stats. With sliders I'm am trying to completely eliminate any "algorithm" determining how many hits, line drives, pop ups, grounders, strike outs and walks exist in an individual game. I want the outcome to be 100% my input and the player stats. With this said, when solid hits is anything less than 10 you can see in the batter feed back a pitch, in the zone, where the PCI perfectly covers the ball, Timing that is good/perfect and it will produce weak contact. This should never happen in a game cause it would never happen in real life unless it was a check swing or contact outside of the zone. That's what led me to test this in the first place. However the timing would need to be zero, 1 or at most two to combat the bloated rate of hits that would occur on 3 or higher timing. I like zero cause of the challenge but if it was too difficult for some this could be bumped up to accommodate for controller ability on any hitting interface (zone, directional, pure analaog).

I do love looking at the stats, however I do not want the game to decide "Ok we are supposed to have an average of 20% line drives so lets drop one now" When the onscreen feedback shows the PCI wasnt even close and the timing was late or early. Thats a random roll experience and, at least for me personally, not what I am looking for with this set. When Im pitching and im executing it should produce results not feel like a random roll in my opinion. I will say I love this set and as far as that goes this feels damn close to producing a simulated result. I guess me personally I dont want the stats to meet the averages I want the stats to point out any weekness in the sliders so adjustments can be made.

I am messing around with a couple of other tweaks (up/down one spot) that I will share soon if I see a result that benefits the group here. Then I am starting a franchise with the Cubs using the just realsed OSFM roster post trade deadline. I want to spend some time learning the spread sheets shared in the first post before I start. Because once I do, I will make zero slider adjustments for the entire season. I am also thinking of just showing each months results so its a larger sample and only 6 batches of data unless of course I make the playoffs lol.

Lastly, is the reason the CPU PCI is so large/covers so much of the zone because we are on legend? I know for human players increasing/decreasing contact will increase/decrease the PCI size somewhat (unless I'm mistaken about that). Before coming to this thread I had never played above all star and I'm wanting to workshop something if the answer to my question is yes.