Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

[BaseballGuru]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

I agree... a point/counter point kinda thing. We both have our biases, but if HH has improved on anything, I'll give it the props it deserves, as I'm sure Cook would with ASB.

Let's do it.

[capa]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

I know it is just a personal opinion, but I gotta support Guru on this one.

I am a bit older tha most of you guys (40's) and I have played all the baseball games out there since they first came out (like most of you have). In addition, I have played real baseball at a fairly high level and had tryouts with the Yankees and Blue Jays (up in COLD Utica NY!!). This was about 23 years ago or so, and I don't mention it to blow my own horn, but to add perspective to my discussion.

ASB 2003, IMO, gave us the best baseball experience of all the major console titles. I say console, because to me the best bb sim is HH2002 on PC with the stadium/uniform/etc. mods. But ASB captured the little nuances and yes, the presentation is definitely part of it, as are the animations. Baseball is for the most part a slow paced game, and that's why this game does not translate well for a majority of people. I mean, how many people do you know can even watch a full 9 inning game today? So, when they play a game, they want to be done in 30 mins. It might be possible, but you miss some of the little things that make baseball such a great game...and can add to the tension.

Guru ran down alot of what makes ASB great in my mind. Yes, it does have a few serious shortcomings, but I played all the titles and the only one I kept was ASB. I could not get past the HH graphics on console after playing ASB, and even this game, considered the king of AI, has its drawbacks in that department. WSB just did not do it for me. A bit too cartoonish and some serious AI flaws.

Again, one man's opinion. We are all turned on by different things in games and life in general. If not, we'd all be married to blondes with blue eyes and 38DD chests! There's room for everyones preferences...

C

[imported_Administrator]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I agree... a point/counter point kinda thing. We both have our biases, but if HH has improved on anything, I'll give it the props it deserves, as I'm sure Cook would with ASB.

Let's do it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


I will throw it out to the powers that be and see if it sticks.

[JRod]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Here's what I never could get....

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Guru ran down alot of what makes ASB great in my mind. Yes, it does have a few serious shortcomings, but I played all the titles and the only one I kept was ASB. I could not get past the HH graphics on console after playing ASB, and even this game, considered the king of AI, has its drawbacks in that department. WSB just did not do it for me. A bit too cartoonish and some serious AI flaws.
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

If you can't get over the graphics that's one thing. But many take it step further. Just because the graphics are bad doesn't mean the gameplay is bad as well. And the same is true or goodlooking games. Hell EA Sports takes everyone's money because of the his philosophy.

Now as for HH I'm not trying to say everyone should play it. Whatever game you like, you play. But I can't stand discussion when some games don't get the props they deserve.

As for Guru, I'm shocked that you didn't vote for me, that's going to keep me up. By the way giving an 89 to ASB, ya that's biased.

[BaseballGuru]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Yeah, I know... it should have been over 90.

[Graphik]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

I would give ASB a 89 also, for the presentation, features and it plays one heck of a baseball game. Only thing I hope they work on is for the pitcher to throw a decent amount of balls. and I'll be satisfied.

[capa]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

JRod,

You'll notice I said HH was the king of AI, although still has some flaws in that area (bunting, throwing to bases by OF, etc.) What I did say was that ASB offered the best baseball experience in my opinion, and that includes AI, graphics, nuances (pitchers warming up, jackets, broken bats, etc).

Graphics do matter to me. This is 2003..I don't want to feel like I am playing a 1997 version of a game. HH gives me that impression..although I take a little poetic license here.

Again, overall I think ASB wins it...but I can see how some are seduced by HH gameplay...

C

[dooch]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

I have to agree with Guru here. I played all the games last year, been playing all baseball games since God knows when, and consider myself fairly knowledgeable when it comes to baseball. That being said, nothing came close to ASB last year, IMO.

I tried HH. I too can see why some people might like it. Just wasn't my cup of tea. Graphics, lack of franchise mode, etc. Tried WSB, and I can't see how anyone with more than average baseball knowledge can consider that game realistic. The baserunning flaws for one were just too much for me. The main reason I returned the game. While simming a season, I noticed some serious flaws. Guys losing 30 games in a season, pitching over 400 innings, the league leader in saves having about 5, and things of that nature. I'm hoping this year's version is much improved, as I will definitely be giving it a try.

As for ASB, too many reasons why I love it. The pitching/batting interface, to me, is the best of any game. The people who say you have to swing before the ball leaves the pitcher's hand is nonsense. I never had that problem, not even the first game I played right out of the box. Sure, some animations are screwy, and on replays the batters swing once the ball is in the catcher's glove, but that does not affect gameplay. And yes, some guys had a tendency to hit too many HR's, but I had a very realistic amount in the 100+ games I played. Is it perfect? No. But IMO, it's the closest one out there. If they just updated rosters, add the online play, and the ability to turn off CPU trading, that would be enough for me.

[arenas809]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The people who say you have to swing before the ball leaves the pitcher's hand is nonsense.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Hmm...many people have made that complaint, so because YOU say you have never had that problem, it's nonsense?

I'm beyond happy for you that you have never had a problem, I hope with your copy of ASB 2004 you get a free box of cracker jack.

[2ndBase]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Guru,

If the "squatting" is just a graphic thing and does not affect gameplay then the animations in High Heat are just a graphic thing and does not affect gameplay. Two questions: 1) wouldn't the game look better without the squatting? 2) Isn't the squatting easy to fix?

[BaseballGuru]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Ahhh, yes, but the graphical problems in High Heat do affect gameplay. Ever had a close play at second where the man covering the base catches, spins, and applies the tag in 2 or 3 frames of animation? I've been called out more times than I can remember because of this awkward transitional, or lack there of, animation.

To answer your questions... yes, the game would look better without the squatting. I think it looks pretty darned good with it, but I agree it would look that much better without it. As far as getting rid of it, I don't know what that would take. From what I understand, the animations are broken into pieces... a throwing part, a catching part, a tagging part, etc.... if alot of animations use that squat position as a start/stop point, it might take alot of work to fix. I can understand why they use it, because that is a common fielder position to be in when waiting for the ball to be put in play.... I just wish that they could have used a standing animation instead. Still, though, it doesn't bother me since you don't see it all of the time.

[2ndBase]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

I agree but the only time I have had the squatting affect the game is when my outfielder makes an error goes to the squat before I get control and then I can get the ball. Other than that it does not affect the game play. ASB does bring the most to the table in terms of an overall game.

[Diablo25]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

"Again, overall I think ASB wins it...but I can see how some are seduced by HH gameplay..."

Isn't gameplay what its all about? I will definately give ASB the edge as far as presentation and graphics. When it comes right down to it if I have to take a hit on the graphics/presentation side for better gameplay I will - instead of vice versa. Of course you want the total package but thats not out there yet. I guess if graphics are that important to you ASB is an awesome game. Thats just not the way I see it.

[BaseballGuru]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Believe it or not, some of us prefer the ASB gameplay over that of High Heat's... really, we do.

To me, the whole arguement can be boiled down into realistic vs. simplistic... ASB is very real, maybe too real for some, while HH is a very simple game to play, which might make it more appealing to the masses.

[dooch]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Arenas-
As a matter of fact, it is nonsense. I don't see it. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would complain about that. The ball comes out of the pitchers hand, you move the cursor, you swing the bat. Pretty simple.

On the other hand, I can see why some might complain about the animations, the 'vaccuum' balls (balls that magically appear in gloves). etc. But that complaint is one I don't understand. Sorry if I don't agree with you.