Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

[Diablo25]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Well, we are back to square one then because High Heat is just not a simplistic game. That is amazing to me that you would think that. ASB too real for some? ASB has been given luke warm reviews by numerous respected gaming sites while High Heat is widely respected as the best game out. I've said it before, I can see people liking the game because its a fun game and looks great but to say its more realistic than HH is near ludicrous. Its more realistic looking but not playing. I guess we'll never end this debate. Oh well.

[BaseballGuru]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Tell me, then... how is High Heat more realistic? Not more fun, but more realistic?

Ball physics? Nuh uhh. Season statistics? Nope. Baseball fundamentals? Don't see it. Play by play audio? You can tell that one goodbye.

I've had some fun games in High Heat, but never once, on any single occassion, did I ever think to myself "wow, that is one realistic baseball experience". Not while swinging at curveballs that start out 2 feet above my head and end in the dirt, not while watching the Rockies make it into the World Series, and not even while robbing 3 homeruns in a single game.

High Heat gets good reviews because reviewers, who have 10 different games sitting on their desk waiting to be played, can put it in the machine, start a game, and be good at it within minutes. It takes no practice, no baseball expertise, and no real knowledge of the game. Like I've said before, it is baseball-lite. Baseball-esque. But not real major league baseball.

[FatPitcher]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

FYI, in the first season with my ASB expansion team, the Rockies beat the Devil Rays in the World Series. Everyone on the Rays had at least 15 HRs on the season.

In High Heat simulation, batters routinely hit 70+ doubles and HRs at Coors Field. The highest I've seen is 96 doubles and 89 HRs.

[BaseballGuru]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...



Nice try, but now you're just grabbing at straws. Would have at least been more believable had you said Toronto. I at least posted screenshots last year of the Rockies in the HH World Series....

PS- I thought you said you only played ASB for a couple of minutes, while the rest of your dev team had never even seen it.... is that the story you are you going to stick with?

[RustedWalleye]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

BaseballGuru? In your opinion, is ASB the best baseball game, period? Im not convinced by your arguments that ASB is better then High Heat. To me both games lacked the long term play I desired. HH2002 PC has been the best at that since FPS Baseball.

There are a ton of good points here, but I too have not understood the appeal of ASB. It was fun for a while, but grew boring. I played half a season before I just didnt have the desire to play anymore. Nothing to work for, nothing that gave me the desire to play more. I played so little baseball this past year that it makes my playing time for HH2002 PC look insanely stupid (I played 2 full seasons, every game, before shelving it for 2003). I was and am very disappointed with all 2003 offerings (cannot comment and never bothered pulling 2002 back out.)

Too many glaring problems to keep the enjoyment there. I agree that the batting cursor adds some major challenge, but once you grasp that what is left? When my expansion team is up 10 games mid way through the season there is a problem. (ala your point of Colorado winning the World Series in HH.)

Not attacking, just still not understanding.

[cookusu]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

I like the idea, but I am definitely staying out of this discussion as I have seen everything Guru has to say over the last 2 years about this subject, but I think we could both do a fun entertaining informative review.

[FatPitcher]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

You make fun of people for bringing up things you said 6 months ago, then you do the same thing. Not surprising.

I'm also not surprised it didn't occur to you that I have played ASB in the many months since then. Anyway, I played up through 2006, can't get to the 2007 season because I have an invalid roster (short 1 pitcher), none in minors, have 7 points left, cheapest free agent pitcher is 9 points.

Some other ASB goodness...Ramon Martinez leads both leagues in batting at .326; Homer Bush is a close second at .323. Cesar Crespo mashes 31 dingers. Barry Larkin leads the AL in walks with 105. Tejada jacks 61 for the Braves. Sturtze leads the AL in wins with 21; teammate Paul Wilson finishes just behind with 20. Carlos Hernandez wins the NL ERA title with a 2.52 mark, but Gary Glover wins the most with 19. Piazza leads the league in triples with 9.

Cubs seem to win the NL Central the first year, Blue Jays tend to do well also.

That kind of stuff happens in EVERY sim game if you play it enough times. Apparently you felt it was worth the time to sim until you got something juicy, then take screenshots and post them. The only thing you proved was that random number generators work. Hooray for you!

[BaseballGuru]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Sorry about bringing up a past statement of yours, Fat... I didn't want you to think that I don't listen to you. It's not that at all... it's just that I don't care what you have to say. Being a game designer doesn't mean you're an expert on games... look at American McGee.

As for what I said about you and your ASB playing-time, you're right... that was really dumb of me to assume that you weren't playing it anymore. I mean, you had to come up with a feature list for your game at some point, so........

The Rockies getting to the High Heat World Series happened in my first simmed season, with the default rosters shipped with the game. There was no player development time, no shifting of power via trades or free agency.... just the Colorado Rockies. I'm sorry, but your "random number generators" shouldn't be that random... take the seasons that players have had in years previous, average out their numbers so that you never are basing someone's performance ratings on a fluke up or down year (Brett Boone), then put those players out there and see how they do against the competition. Not always accurate, no.... but that should provide the basis for a realistic simulation.

I'd take the time to make up some stats from a simmed WSB season, but I'm just not as creative as you are. I guess that's why you're a game designer and I'm not. You come up with great ideas and.... oh, wait.... no you don't. Sorry. Let me start over... you wait to see what ASB does and then you.... oops, nevermind.

I'm such a jerk, but luckily I know that I've got you stalking about, always ready to put me in my place.

Hooray for me!

[FatPitcher]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

I'm not an expert; I'm just someone who likes to play baseball games and happens to have a job designing (parts of) one.

The biggest difference between game designers in general and you is that game designers can't be blind to obvious flaws in the game they are making and playing.

Edit: And the biggest difference between experts and me is that experts typically get a decent paycheck

[johnnyg83]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

ASB did get boring.

[Diablo25]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

I can sum up my feelings this way:


Technical Advisor to ASB
Supposed expert on presentation but really knows squat
about the game.


Technical Advisor to High Heat (PC)
Definately not pretty but has finger on pulse of MLB

Just my feelings. I'm sure some disagree.

[pigpen81]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

[BaseballGuru]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Now that was clever... you should talk to FatPitcher, I'm sure there's a job in game design for someone as creative and original as you, Diablo. Really. I bet there is. You should ask. I mean, everyone knows that Joan Rivers = Comedy Gold, but few have the wit to deliver the goods like you can.

People around here are always saying how much more realistic High Heat is than ASB.... but they never say why. Give me 10 reasons why High Heat is more real than ASB and we'll go from there. We already know that the sim engine in High Heat is pure ***, along with other aspects of the game like pitch flight, lack of transitional animations which ends up affecting gameplay, ease of homerun robbing, pitchers who don't have their full arsenal of pitches, incorrect pitching deliveries and batting animations, stadiums that are out of date or have wrong/missing parts to them, etc...

You have the floor... time to enlighten me.

[Peter_OS]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

[FatPitcher]

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Pictures are 1000 words. Too bad those 2000 words up there are all dumb.