Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

**BaseballGuru** · 01-03-2003, 02:00 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Ummmmm............ ok.

**pigpen81** · 01-03-2003, 03:00 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
We already know that the sim engine in High Heat is pure ***, along with other aspects of the game like pitch flight

<hr /></blockquote>

how did pitch flight come into this?

again..bump up the pitch speed sliders a couple of notches and the pitch flight is the most realistic to date.

sliders break like sliders....cb's like cb's..

Guru, I appreciate yuor passion about ASB but your arguments have become extremely redundant.

High Heat is more real(for the 1000th time) in:

1)batter/pitcher mechanics
2)working the count
3)cpu a.i. that actually walks hitters
4)realisitic triples
5)tuned gameplay
6)excitement of the game
7)lile-like players that play according to real life stats
8)better fielding mechanism
9)ability to edit pitchers to add or take away pitch types
10)it's not ASB.

Again...if ASB fixed their batter/pithcer interface it might put it over the top.

and calling the gameplay "simplistic" is tired and old....again..bump up the pitch speed sliders and tell me how you feel.

You're almost martyrlike in your opinions GURU....you need a new angle.

**BaseballGuru** · 01-03-2003, 03:12 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

No slider or curveball I've ever seen breaks like that in HH. Sorry.

As for the rest:

1)batter/pitcher mechanics =

2)working the count = how do you work the count when you put the bat on the ball 99% of the time?
3)cpu a.i. that actually walks hitters = I've maybe walked 5 times in my 100 or so HH games
4)realisitic triples = mmmmmmm.... maybe
5)tuned gameplay = press a throw button and you throw, press the swing button and you swing.... I agree it's tuned well, but there isn't much there to tune in comparison to the other games
6)excitement of the game = this is an opinion... I don't find it exciting
7)lile-like players that play according to real life stats =

life-like?

8)better fielding mechanism = too many missing animations that affect gameplay
9)ability to edit pitchers to add or take away pitch types = that is cool
10)it's not ASB. = and there's the game's downfall

I've played with the pitch speeds from the top to the bottom, and I still don't think the ball moves very realisticly.

Sorry if my "angle" doesn't appeal to you anymore... I'm just not very good at telling people what they want to hear. You can always stop reading my posts, too... won't bother me any.

**pigpen81** · 01-03-2003, 03:30 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
I've maybe walked 5 times in my 100 or so HH games

<hr /></blockquote>

if you weren't to busy button mashing at every pitch you would start walking....I averaged 4-5 a game. It must be a bad habit you developed from playing to much ASB where you have to swing at every pitch to play a game in under a hour.

I'm starting to think you're James Carville posing as a man from the good ol southwest....because GURU..you are the true SPINMEISTER. and that is a compliment

**BaseballGuru** · 01-03-2003, 03:41 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Hmmmmm... well, most of my games in ASB are under 40-45 minutes, and I've had some pretty realistic stats. Turn off all the indicators and play on All-Star level.... very challenging. Granted, I don't walk as much as I'd like, but I manage a few a game.

**Diablo25** · 01-03-2003, 03:42 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Guru, I get the feeling God himself could be here defending any game and you would still argue. Thats fine though - its fun debating.

Lets see. As far as I can see you feel ASB plays a better game of baseball than HH. I disagree. The below thoughts are from playing HH (PC) NOT PS2. You cannot tweak the PS2 version anywhere near the PC version. With the use of DangerZ's editor (best user made utility on the net for any game IMO) I can pretty much tweak anything I want. I truly believe HH does the following things better:

First off, I concede presentation, graphics and animations. ASB definately does a better job. If that kills a game for you then ASB is the game for you. I'd love to see HH with ASB's graphics, stadiums and animations. No joke. But HH's gameplay overshadows ASB's presentation for me.

Pitcher Batter Interface: Not even close here. Even without the cursor ASB doesn't do a good job. No walks, horrid pitch counts. You can never work the pitcher and get deep in a count. Bring the cursor in and it gets worse.

Baserunning AI. HH doesn't do it absolutely perfect but ASB doesn't come close. Lead runners move on hits. CPU is agressive in stealing situations and hit and runs.

Defensinve AI: Cutoffs, bunt "D", pick offs, etc. All done better by HH. Plus the defensive camera in ASB, well stinks. Also, I hate games that "cut" to the defnesive camera instead of just panning back. Just my personal preference.

Pitch Speeds: You say HH's are "loopy". I guarentee you I can tweak the speeds on HH to make ASB's look slow. I choose not to because I want realistic results. The tune file allows me to do this. ASB and HH PS2, console games, don't have the option. I can tweak the size of the ball, the sweetspot of the bat, injury frequency, runner speed, fielder speed, catcher throw %, pitch speed ratios, cameras, trade AI, wild pitches, passed balls, balk%, and so on.

Hit variety: No other game does this as good as HH. Line drives, squibs, HR's, triples...yes triples. Don't see many of them in ASB or any other game for that matter.

I think Graphik sums up the appeal of HH with this post.
http://forums.operationsports.com//u...o=&fpart=1

If you still choose to disagree (and I know you will

), thats fine. I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.
Now you can dazzle and amaze us with your response. Sugar coat it with some witty phrases please.

**BaseballGuru** · 01-03-2003, 04:01 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

If I believed in a god I'm sure it would prefer ASB over HH... he would smite Trip Hawkins for his creations, too... but that's all besides the point.

I agree about presentation, disagree about the batter/pitcher interface, disagree about the baserunning (not 100% though), disagree about the defensive AI, can't comment on HH PC's pitch speeds, and kinda agree about the hit varieties, but do so grudgingly and not very much.

You seem to be under the impression that I hate High Heat, but that's not the case. I own it, and I play it.... I just don't think it's as realistic as ASB. I understand why people like HH, but will never understand why they say it's a better game. There's no sense of baseball history, no sense of the little things that make baseball the greatest game on earth in HH. It's just run, throw, catch, hit, blah, blah, blah.... there's no soul to it, no life in the game.

**johnnyg83** · 01-03-2003, 04:12 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

All this smiting has left me thristy for an adult beverage.

Diablo -- I second your motion.

**Diablo25** · 01-03-2003, 04:18 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

One thing I'll give you Guru - you are a baseball fan. Any baseball fan is a friend of mine. Its the greatest game on earth. I think we agree that we disagree on this ASB vs. HH issue

I swear to you, if ASB comes out this year and is better that HH I would drop HH in a heartbeat - seriously. One thing I am not is loyal to these companies. Well, to a degree I'm not. I love the fact that all the games are competing and getting better. Its fun debating

I just simmed a season og HH for the hell of it. I'll post results in a sec. The PC version is really very good. ASB is coming to the PC this summer I think. That should be interesting. Be back in a bit with the results of simmed season...

**Peter_OS** · 01-03-2003, 04:19 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
All this smiting has left me thristy for an adult beverage.

<hr /></blockquote>

Me too.

How about it johnnyg83? Guru you buy.

**Diablo25** · 01-03-2003, 04:43 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Well, here are the results of the simmed season (I have the day off due to snow and I'm bored to hell)

. I'll list the top 5 leaders in each category. I'll do AL only.

Season ends with Boston, Oakland and Minnesota winning their respective divisions. Yankees win wildcard. Twinkies win 104 games! St. Louis, Atlanta (damn Braves) and San Fran win their respective divisions. Dodgers win the Wildcard. Boston defeats Oakland, Yankees defeat Twinkies, St Louis defeats SF, and Atlanta defeats LA. Boston defeats Yankees in ALCS. St. Louis defeats Atlanta.
St. Louis defeats Boston in 6 games...the curse continues.

Stats. Top 5 in each category:
Hitting:
AVE:
Sweeney .351
M. Ramirez .328
J. Jones .327
Beltran .327
Nomar .325

HR:
ARod 49
Thome 43
> Ordonez 39
G. Anderson 33
Konerko 31

RBI
ARod 134
IRod 131
Ramirez 128
Nomar 123
Thome 121

Hits
Nomar 203
Sweeney 201
Beltran 199
Ramirez 192
J. Jones 191

SB
Ichiro 53
Jeter 48
Stewart 39
Durham 37
Damon 34

3B
Damon 15
Beltran 15
Durham 12
Guzman 11
Soriano 11

2B
Nomar 56
IRod 54
Anderson 52
D. Jackson 46
Giambi 42

Pitching:
Wins:
Pedro 22
Radke 18
Washburn 16
Lowe 16
Weaver 16

ERA:
Pettite 2.51
Pedro 2.61
Lowe 2.69
Hudson 2.94
Halladay 2.96

K's:
Pedro 230
Clement 211
Pettite 173
F. Garcia 169
Clemens 168

Saves:
Hawkins 43
Koch 41
Foulke 40
Urbina 35
Rivera 32

MVP = ARod Cy Young = Pedro

This doesn't really prove anything but it was fun

**BaseballGuru** · 01-03-2003, 05:12 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

I'm simming right now.... simulation slider turned all the way up, all of the rest of the settings left at default. I'll get back to you in a couple of hours when it's finished.

**Poopypants** · 01-03-2003, 05:37 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

AHHHH good to be back in such controversial threads such as this. Checked out that High Heat 2004 stream on gamespot. One word..."WOW". Is Trip in trouble or what? 2 plays in one movie that should have been outs and animations yucked it up. Cant wait til its out!

Dont give up the fight guru...one day they will all understand where you and i are coming from. And i have a feeling ASB2k4 will silence the nay-sayers.

The movies of ASB on ign look great. I like:
Umpire calls now
new batter pitcher graphics (the 2002 stats for batters...love that)
the shadows on the players now
the movie 1 with no crowds and birds chirping. Is that a new stadium?

**johnnyg83** · 01-03-2003, 05:49 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Watch the movie at IGN where the Batter is taking BP #4 or #5 I think.

Slow it down and watch where the bat swings and where the ball is. Pitch goes low, bat goes high...

But guess what?

It's shot!

Embarrasing.

Not to mention that the bat doesn't even move until the ball is AT home plate (watch the shadow).

I pray this is just a December problem that will be gone by Spring.

**Peter_OS** · 01-03-2003, 06:20 PM

Re: Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Poopypants any chance you're related to BaseballGuru?

Trying To Understand The Appeal Towards ASB...

Recommended Videos

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment