reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

[spankdatazz22]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

So lets not go there again, please.

My point wasn't to "call you out", so to speak - I didn't articulate my response as well as I should've. I just re-read my post and can see where you may have interpreted some of the things I said as [attacking] you for past views/discussions. Quite the contrary, I thought it was interesting that we were debating the impact of exclusivity deals a year ago and how we looked at things differently from how the football fans reacted to how the baseball fans would react. And I think I understood the point you were trying to make, where people seem to be really up in arms about this freeze issue yet don't approach so-called game killing bugs the same way. There's really no way to word it properly in an IM while trying to be brief so I won't try.

[K_GUN]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

And what does that have to do with the fact that many now have a $60 paperweight?

The game wasn't worth it back then... and people didn't buy it. They worked on their title and it's now (IMO) the best title out there.

2k6 on the other hand... work in progress, if you will. If it's not a finished title like almost EVERYONE feels, they shouldn't be charging full price for it.

the point being.....the one i started.....don't compare the 2 titles....you'll sound uneducated

[DrJones]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Again, basehead617 is correct in how he describes the process. I used to work on MVP (and still would be if not for the 2k exclusivity deal), so by no means am I a 2k apologist.

[K_GUN]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Again, basehead617 is correct in how he describes the process. I used to work on MVP (and still would be if not for the 2k exclusivity deal), so by no means am I a 2k apologist.

so Dr jones....


what are your thoughts on EXCLUSIVITY deals in your line of work?

what plans did u guys have for x 360 & mvp?

will exclusivity deals last?

[DrJones]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

What a way to start your 3rd party exclusive rights deal. My copy of the game has worked fine so far and I'm enjoying the game but, I have always been more of an MVP fan. Here's hopping that MLB gets cold feet and backs out of there deal with 2k. This is the only baseball game on the 360 and many can't even play it. This not only hurts 2k but also the MLB. A down side of exclusive deals. Something goes bad with the game and there is nowhere else for people to turn to with the MLB brand on it. MLB can't be enjoying this. Right now it seems as if they signed the wrong dev.

I doubt MLB is aware of this at all. They're happy with the deal because they get guaranteed cash out of it -- their cut isn't dependent on how many units 2k sells. If anyone tries to back out of this deal, it'll be 2k.

[ianx]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Oblivion= Probably GOTY
NBA=Best Basketball game probably ever

thats great and all but do they still have problems with regards to memory cache and other glitches?

[DrJones]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

so Dr jones....


what are your thoughts on EXCLUSIVITY deals in your line of work?

what plans did u guys have for x 360 & mvp?

will exclusivity deals last?

1. I don't like them. As a gamer, I want choice. And obviously, EA's exclusive with the NFL indirectly contributed to me losing my job. But remember, EA and 2k didn't start this. The NFL did, and EA did what they had to do to protect their interests. MLB, naturally, tried to cash in as well.

2. Can't say, as I signed an NDA, and will probably be back working in the industry one of these days.

3. They'll last as long as both sides think they're maximizing profit through such agreements. If EA or 2k starts losing money as a result (or if the NFL or MLB think they can make more through royalties than they can through flat cash payments), then you'll see the end of them.

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Looks like they've begun to CLEAN-HOUSE...

http://www.2ksports.com/jobs/

[K_GUN]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

1. I don't like them. As a gamer, I want choice. And obviously, EA's exclusive with the NFL indirectly contributed to me losing my job. But remember, EA and 2k didn't start this. The NFL did, and EA did what they had to do to protect their interests. MLB, naturally, tried to cash in as well.

2. Can't say, as I signed an NDA, and will probably be back working in the industry one of these days.

3. They'll last as long as both sides think they're maximizing profit through such agreements. If EA or 2k starts losing money as a result (or if the NFL or MLB think they can make more through royalties than they can through flat cash payments), then you'll see the end of them.

yeah the industry is in trouble...u can't charge 60$ a pop & have these issues

i haven't bought a football game in 2 years....& probably won't now for baseball

[gtm]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Looks like they've begun to CLEAN-HOUSE...

http://www.2ksports.com/jobs/

Oh my god. The top gun was not happy with the output. The have heard from us and all the returned games. This is for '07.

[DrJones]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Looks like they've begun to CLEAN-HOUSE...

http://www.2ksports.com/jobs/

*scans for designer/producer openings*

Nope. Bummer.

[basehead617]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

I doubt MLB is aware of this at all. They're happy with the deal because they get guaranteed cash out of it -- their cut isn't dependent on how many units 2k sells. If anyone tries to back out of this deal, it'll be 2k.

Finally, someone who gets it.. not surprisingly it's someone actually in the industry and not a troll.

[DrJones]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

yeah the industry is in trouble...u can't charge 60$ a pop & have these issues

i haven't bought a football game in 2 years....& probably won't now for baseball

The problems are these:

1. Games are far more expensive to make than they were a few years ago.
2. Games are far more complex than they were a few years ago.
3. The amount of time allowed to develop a game is the same (or even less) than it was a few years ago.
4. Gamers are more sophisticated and demanding than they were a few years ago.
5. The average age of people making games is slowly going up, and nobody really feels like working 90 hours a week with no overtime anymore (at least, I don't).

I don't know what the answers are, but something's gotta give.

[basehead617]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

The problems are these:

1. Games are far more expensive to make than they were a few years ago.
2. Games are far more complex than they were a few years ago.
3. The amount of time allowed to develop a game is the same (or even less) than it was a few years ago.
4. Gamers are more sophisticated and demanding than they were a few years ago.
5. The average age of people making games is slowly going up, and nobody really feels like working 90 hours a week with no overtime anymore (at least, I don't).

I don't know what the answers are, but something's gotta give.

These are the real reasons for the state of sports gaming -- you all may not 'care' and be 'f***in ****sed!!' but that doesn't change the facts. Every sports game development team in the last few years probably works as many hours as almost any other job on earth.

Even with a 200 person development staff per project, which no company could afford anyway, it would be impossible to make the game people think should be made every year..

[ChicagoSparty]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Finally, someone who gets it.. not surprisingly it's someone actually in the industry and not a troll.

Gets what?

I freely admit I don't know what goes into making these things. What I "get" are business and the concept of equity, both of which lead one to the conclusion that consumers don't give a flying **** what goes into making a product. We just want our products to work, and work well, especially when we're charged relatively high prices for them, and especially when promises are made up front.

I also "get" that no one in this country is forced to work in any particular industry; if you start a business and work in a partidulcar industry, that's your choice. And you take the heat that goes along with that choice, or you get out. I'm a lawyer. Every now and then I get sick of the long hours, unappreciative clients, etc. But then I always remind myself that I could choose to do something else.

Bottom line is this: it ain't our job to figure out any of this stuff. As someone else has pointed out, these companies are all too happy to take the credit (and the money) when a game turns out very well. They also have to be willing to accept responsibility where one does not.

2K/Kush better be working on a patch---not a workaround, not a "solution," but a patch that completely solves the freezing problems. If they are, that's great---I fault them for not diagnosing the problem before release, but in the end, everyone is happy, and without significant delay. If they are not, I will be extremely upset and never again will I buy a product from those companies.