reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

[basehead617]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Gets what?

2K/Kush better be working on a patch---not a workaround, not a "solution," but a patch that completely solves the freezing problems. If they are, that's great---I fault them for not diagnosing the problem before release, but in the end, everyone is happy, and without significant delay. If they are not, I will be extremely upset and never again will I buy a product from those companies.

Yours is a reasonable stance. I just get annoyed at the 'NOBODY TESTS THE GAME WTF' and 'they did this to screw us' posts from others - it just results in crossposting of tons of lies and misinformation on different boards which is then detrimental to everyone involved. The wrong people get needlessly trashed, everyone is misinformed, gamers don't know what to do or what is going wrong, developers have an extraordinarily difficult situation to remedy while the clock ticks down.

Anyway it's an unfortunate mess and Dr Jones and I both agree it is a result of the things he listed, and some of the things I have listed. Nobody is trying to screw anyone.

If the situation bothers you, which it should, when this can be a possible result.. and one is unwilling to return/exchange the game, wait out a fix, and give it another shot later, then take your business elsewhere.

At least your antagonism is not based on total BS.

[jpup]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

These are the real reasons for the state of sports gaming -- you all may not 'care' and be 'f***in ****sed!!' but that doesn't change the facts. Every sports game development team in the last few years probably works as many hours as almost any other job on earth.

Even with a 200 person development staff per project, which no company could afford anyway, it would be impossible to make the game people think should be made every year..

Hire more people or better people. You can't charge $60 for a game that is broken. That is a fact. Well, you can, but if it's broke, you see what happens. Are you telling me that people should just get over it?

If you went out and bought a brand new car and the motor blew up, the first time you started it, who would you blame? You wouldn't care why the problem happenned, you would just want it fixed and not to happen again.

I haven't bought a baseball game from 2k since 2003 and won't start until the problems are resolved, many feel the same way. Don't come on here defending the "process" or the title without expecting to get some backlash from hundreds of gamers that spent $60 on a promise that was not fulfilled.

This has nothing to do with SCEA or EA. This is a 2K and Kush problem. Just because they screwed us in the past, doesn't mean it's ok for 2k to do the same. Also, don't try to push the blame on Microsoft, it's been going on for years with 2k. They have a reputation for this and for anyone to say otherwise would be very ignorrant.

If you guys don't want to work 90 hours a week on a game, find another job. I have little sympathy, I am sure that you are well payed for what you do.

[ChicagoSparty]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Yours is a reasonable stance. I just get annoyed at the 'NOBODY TESTS THE GAME WTF' and 'they did this to screw us' posts from others - it just results in crossposting of tons of lies and misinformation on different boards which is then detrimental to everyone involved. The wrong people get needlessly trashed, everyone is misinformed, gamers don't know what to do or what is going wrong, developers have an extraordinarily difficult situation to remedy while the clock ticks down.

Anyway it's an unfortunate mess and Dr Jones and I both agree it is a result of the things he listed, and some of the things I have listed. Nobody is trying to screw anyone.

If the situation bothers you, which it should, when this can be a possible result.. and one is unwilling to return/exchange the game, wait out a fix, and give it another shot later, then take your business elsewhere.

At least your antagonism is not based on total BS.

Sounds like we're on the same page. Look, **** happens. It's what you do afterward that counts. That by no means gives a free pass to developers---or anyone else---but I understand mistakes are made in every industry, particularly when you're dealing with new technologies.

Now, I have in the past seen things like this (like this, but not as serious) go unaddressed. That pisses me off.

Oh, and to anyone talking about EA and Sony: in my opinion anyway, Triple Play was a bad game, as was Sony's initial offering, while MVP '05 and The Show are awesome. It takes time, particularly on a new console, and this game actually is pretty good once you get to play it. I am confident in the future of baseball videogames.

[ChicagoSparty]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Hire more people or better people. You can't charge $60 for a game that is broken. That is a fact. Well, you can, but if it's broke, you see what happens. Are you telling me that people should just get over it?

Overall, you're being totally unreasonable and showing a lack of knowledge about commerce.

If you went out and bought a brand new car and the motor blew up, the first time you started it, who would you blame? You wouldn't care why the problem happenned, you would just want it fixed and not to happen again.

True, but an automobile costs $10,000, minimum. It's an extreme example that it unhelpful.

I haven't bought a baseball game from 2k since 2003 and won't start until the problems are resolved, many feel the same way. Don't come on here defending the "process" or the title without expecting to get some backlash from hundreds of gamers that spent $60 on a promise that was not fulfilled.

I guess I agree with this.

This has nothing to do with SCEA or EA. This is a 2K and Kush problem. Just because they screwed us in the past, doesn't mean it's ok for 2k to do the same. Also, don't try to push the blame on Microsoft, it's been going on for years with 2k. They have a reputation for this and for anyone to say otherwise would be very ignorrant.

Give them a chance. It's been like one day since this thing was found. If they do nothing, begin being outraged at that time.

If you guys don't want to work 90 hours a week on a game, find another job. I have little sympathy, I am sure that you are well payed for what you do.

I have no idea really, but I would stake my life that they are not well payed for working 90 hours per week.

[basehead617]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Hire more people or better people. You can't charge $60 for a game that is broken. That is a fact. Well, you can, but if it's broke, you see what happens. Are you telling me that people should just get over it?

I said nothing of the sort. I said return the game and wait, then later try it.. or don't. Your choice.

This has nothing to do with SCEA or EA. This is a 2K and Kush problem. Just because they screwed us in the past, doesn't mean it's ok for 2k to do the same. Also, don't try to push the blame on Microsoft, it's been going on for years with 2k. They have a reputation for this and for anyone to say otherwise would be very ignorrant.

You don't know what the problem is (MLB 360 freezing, I never said anything about past games) so pretending you do isn't very useful for anyone involved. The fact that other 360 games may or may not work okay is nothing useful as a point of debate here. I doubt the official reason will be released to the public, but it will eventually get out - what the technical issue is.

My best guess from admittedly little inside information is that it is a combination hardware/software issue that has a patch or a workaround on the software side, depending on how well it can be nailed down.

If you guys don't want to work 90 hours a week on a game, find another job. I have little sympathy, I am sure that you are well payed for what you do.

I get paid well for what I do, but what I do is not related to making games.. thanks.

Anyway, return/exchange the game and wait and see.. maybe there is a magic fix, maybe there isn't..

[jpup]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Give them a chance. It's been like one day since this thing was found. If they do nothing, begin being outraged at that time.


I have no idea really, but I would stake my life that they are not well payed for working 90 hours per week.

First of all, we have been giving them chance after chance after chance. Also, no one is forcing them to work there. They can choose to work somewhere else if they do not like the conditions.

There is no way that one can reasonably defend 2k after the constant problems they have had with several titles.

Overall, you are showing a lack of understanding of the sports videogame world. The only ones rushing these games are the game companies themselves. They did everything they could to get the game out by opening day, bugs and glitches be damned.

WE ARE SICK OF IT!

[gtm]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

First of all, we have been giving them chance after chance after chance. Also, no one is forcing them to work there. They can choose to work somewhere else if they do not like the conditions.

There is no way that one can reasonably defend 2k after the constant problems they have had with several titles.

Overall, you are showing a lack of understanding of the sports videogame world. The only ones rushing these games are the game companies themselves. They did everything they could to get the game out by opening day, bugs and glitches be damned.

WE ARE SICK OF IT!

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DrJones]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

Triple Play was a bad game, as was Sony's initial offering, while MVP '05 and The Show are awesome.

LOL, yeah, most Triple Play games were bad (I was involved in every EA baseball game from TP 2000 to MVP 06). Wasn't due to people not working hard, though. The hours were more gruelling back then, actually. There's often a lot of stuff behind the scenes that determine whether a game turns out good or bad. It's a weird industry.

[jpup]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

I said nothing of the sort. I said return the game and wait, then later try it.. or don't. Your choice.



You don't know what the problem is (MLB 360 freezing, I never said anything about past games) so pretending you do isn't very useful for anyone involved. The fact that other 360 games may or may not work okay is nothing useful as a point of debate here. I doubt the official reason will be released to the public, but it will eventually get out - what the technical issue is.

My best guess from admittedly little inside information is that it is a combination hardware/software issue that has a patch or a workaround on the software side, depending on how well it can be nailed down.



I get paid well for what I do, but what I do is not related to making games.. thanks.

Anyway, return/exchange the game and wait and see.. maybe there is a magic fix, maybe there isn't..

If you would have read my post, you would know that I didn't buy the game due to past issues that made some titles unplayable.

If 2k would have shown, with this title, that those problems were resolved, I would have considered it this year.

[ChicagoSparty]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

First of all, we have been giving them chance after chance after chance. Also, no one is forcing them to work there. They can choose to work somewhere else if they do not like the conditions.

There is no way that one can reasonably defend 2k after the constant problems they have had with several titles.

Overall, you are showing a lack of understanding of the sports videogame world. The only ones rushing these games are the game companies themselves. They did everything they could to get the game out by opening day, bugs and glitches be damned.

WE ARE SICK OF IT!

True, they can work somewhere else, but that doesn't mean they are paid well for what they do.

And, while they may have rushed things, the game itself is not bug-laden. So once they find a fix for the freezing, everything will be fine. I think people are flying off the deep end a little bit (myself included, at first).

[ChicagoSparty]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

LOL, yeah, most Triple Play games were bad (I was involved in every EA baseball game from TP 2000 to MVP 06). Wasn't due to people not working hard, though. The hours were more gruelling back then, actually. There's often a lot of stuff behind the scenes that determine whether a game turns out good or bad. It's a weird industry.

Interesting. I'd love to know more about the inner workings. Is there a book on this? If not, one of you should write one.

Also, MVP 05 still is my favorite game ever, so your hard work was not in vain.

[basehead617]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

FWIW, i believe this person is the closest to 'correct' of any of the wild 2ksports.com forum speculation. they correctly guessed some of the technical details of the 360, and I think Take Two/2K will find this to be close to the problem if they haven't already. I believe there is a hidden partition created on the 360 HD for temp/cache files that cannot be deleted except by formatting:

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="6" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td nowrap="nowrap"> belljr <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_694053", true); </script>
Junior Member
Waterboy
</td> <td width="100%"> </td> <td nowrap="nowrap" valign="top"> Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 25


</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- / user info --><!-- message, attachments, sig --> <!-- icon and title -->
<hr style="color: rgb(238, 238, 238);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Priesthood619
Maybe we can get a Computer Hardware expert to weigh in on this?
What does formatting the HDD do as opposed to deleted everything on the HDD seperatly?
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

My best guess, is there is a hidden partition or just hidden files the game creates for caching or swapping or something.

Deleteing the game files does not remove these possible hidden 2k system files.

Formatting the HDD will wipe out everything

Purely speculation on my part but that would be the difference
<!-- / message --><!-- controls -->

[DrJones]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

First of all, we have been giving them chance after chance after chance. Also, no one is forcing them to work there. They can choose to work somewhere else if they do not like the conditions.

There is no way that one can reasonably defend 2k after the constant problems they have had with several titles.

Overall, you are showing a lack of understanding of the sports videogame world. The only ones rushing these games are the game companies themselves. They did everything they could to get the game out by opening day, bugs and glitches be damned.

WE ARE SICK OF IT!

I'm not saying 2k isn't responsible, or that you shouldn't be mad. Just make sure to direct your anger to the correct source. It's very unlikely that the people who actually made the game rushed it out the door. When a game is rushed out the door, rest assured it's the people who work far fewer hours and make far bigger salaries who are making that decision.

[GamingJones]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

What does it matter who the anger is directed at?

2K Sports on the whole failed.

[quietcool72]

Re: reality check for you all - PLEASE read this

My point wasn't to "call you out", so to speak - I didn't articulate my response as well as I should've. I just re-read my post and can see where you may have interpreted some of the things I said as [attacking] you for past views/discussions. Quite the contrary, I thought it was interesting that we were debating the impact of exclusivity deals a year ago and how we looked at things differently from how the football fans reacted to how the baseball fans would react. And I think I understood the point you were trying to make, where people seem to be really up in arms about this freeze issue yet don't approach so-called game killing bugs the same way. There's really no way to word it properly in an IM while trying to be brief so I won't try.

No worries. I didn't feel attacked. I just wanted to clarify the "babies" thing for those who may be reading that for the first time and jump to a wrong conclusion. I understood your wording and understood what you were saying.

Honestly, I'll say the same thing about the MLB 3rd party exclusivity as I did NFL exclusivity. It is what it is. Its a raw deal for gamers, a quick buck for the leagues, and just a bit of "interest securing" for companies who now have an excuse to do little between years.

I think at the very least Major League Baseball should flag 2K for buying exclusive PC game rights for baseball, but then refusing to make a game. That's just some raw crap there, and stinks to high-heaven. I think in light of that, the MLB should revoke the PC exlusivity from 2K in the interest of best practices and fairness to the fans.

..but that does little to guarantee that EA would make MVP for just the PC even if they could. Somehow I doubt they would- so then it becomes irrelevant.

Regardless, 2K may be in a real jam. With take two's recent financial setbacks, bad press about this title is gonna really hurt them. This could be a real blow to them that could hurt the whole line of 2K games if it continues.

You know- its getting to the point where its less about fanboydom to EA and 2K, and more about trying to pick which games have bugs that are "liveable" or "inexcuseable". Its a shame its come to that, but I sense a great deal of gamers feel like that.

Pretty sad.