Patch Discussion

[longshadow11]

Re: Patch Discussion

2K- What a bunch of clowns. I personally fired them by returning my game. I wish everyone having problems would do the same. It's the only way we're going to get any kind of quality products from these jokers.

[mjb2124]

Re: Patch Discussion

2K- What a bunch of clowns. I personally fired them by returning my game. I wish everyone having problems would do the same. It's the only way we're going to get any kind of quality products from these jokers.

They already got their money. Returning it won't send any sort of message.

Unfortunately the only way to really get through to the big wigs who control the developers is to not purchase the product.

[jim416]

Re: Patch Discussion

I don't know Joeboo, there used to be a thing called "vendor returns". Those are items that a faulty that are returned by the customer. The stores then write up a "vendor return" charging it back to the publisher. I don't know if that's how it works today, but usually retailers do not get stuck with a faulty product.

[mjb2124]

Re: Patch Discussion

jim416 - I didn't know that. My only question is, how do they classify a vendor return of a faulty product from a return of a product that a user just doesn't want to use anymore (ie: trading in MLB2K6 when football season starts because a person won't play it anymore with a football game out).

[baa7]

Re: Patch Discussion

jim416 - I didn't know that. My only question is, how do they classify a vendor return of a faulty product from a return of a product that a user just doesn't want to use anymore (ie: trading in MLB2K6 when football season starts because a person won't play it anymore with a football game out).

Well first there's a time limit on any return. Past that, it's really not an issue of "why" the consumer is unhappy. The stores I shop at accept returns, no questions asked. They might ask if I'm returning it due to defect, but that's it as far as questions. Then it's their issue to deal with. And I can't imagine they get stuck with the product, but maybe they do.

[mjb2124]

Re: Patch Discussion

Well first there's a time limit on any return. Past that, it's really not an issue of "why" the consumer is unhappy. The stores I shop at accept returns, no questions asked. They might ask if I'm returning it due to defect, but that's it as far as questions. Then it's their issue to deal with. And I can't imagine they get stuck with the product, but maybe they do.

Ahhh good point. There's a difference between returning a game and exchanging a game. I was just lumping them together.

[jim416]

Re: Patch Discussion

Joeboo, the stores know it, KUSH knows it. I would think if KUSH wants their games sold at these stores they will accept what is obviously a faulty product put out by them. That's the way it used to be, don't know if that's changed now.

[baa7]

Re: Patch Discussion

Joeboo, the stores know it, KUSH knows it. I would think if KUSH wants their games sold at these stores they will accept what is obviously a faulty product put out by them. That's the way it used to be, don't know if that's changed now.

I did read the other day on this site that once stores accept the software, it's theirs. I don't know how true that is, but if so, it tells me the laws governing software distribution and sales need changing. Really, what's stopping a company from putting out a defective product, if they know people have no recourse when it comes to getting a refund on something they're dissatisfied with?

Not that it affects me all that much. I'm what's called a "conscious consumer" or "cheapskate". I don't but nuthin' 'til I know exactly what it is I could be getting stuck with. And I don't shop at any stores that don't honor returns with full refund, and with no questions asked.

[DXZeke]

Re: Patch Discussion

I did read the other day on this site that once stores accept the software, it's theirs. I don't know how true that is, but if so, it tells me the laws governing software distribution and sales need changing. Really, what's stopping a company from putting out a defective product, if they know people have no recourse when it comes to getting a refund on something they're dissatisfied with?

Not that it affects me all that much. I'm what's called a "conscious consumer" or "cheapskate". I don't but nuthin' 'til I know exactly what it is I could be getting stuck with. And I don't shop at any stores that don't honor returns with full refund, and with no questions asked.

Vendors still have to eat the product if it's defective.

[longshadow11]

Re: Patch Discussion

I expect EB and Gamestop will share their displeasure with 2K if enough games are returned. The EB where I returned my game has had "a ton" of copies of 2K6 brought back according to the fellow behind the counter. In a way, the freezing makes me happy. Maybe 2K will get rid of Kush and come up with a developer who will give us a top notch baseball game rather than the just average game we are destined to always get from Kush.

[EdRaynes]

Re: Patch Discussion

Well, I did it again. In my desperation to have a baseball game this season on my 360, I re-bought the game. I thought I would give it a try after the recent patch. Loaded the game, downloaded patch, created a profile, adjusted sliders. Top of the 2nd -----Wham!!! System freezes harder than a 17 year old boy waking up in summer cheerleader camp. Oh well, shame on me for giving it a second chance.

Frankly, I believe the problem is with the file I/O routines in the software. I would be curious to see if the developers are using any non-standard functions for file management.

A current article in SD Times, an industry trade publication, talked about how some of the major game development companies are looking to IBM and other software tools vendors to manage the complexity of development for modern games development on the new consoles. Much of this is the result of the hardware architecture offering some much more to the programmers. For example, the 3 processors in the 360. Programming for a multi-core system requires knowledge of managing mutiple threads in order to take advantage of the hardware. Frankly, I don't believe we have witnessed an titles doing this except for perhaps, Oblivion and maybe G.R.A.W. Another issue is the tools and libraries used by the game developers have to be thread safe, and also aware of the mutiple processors. Up until now, all console development has been single core. The two environments and development approaches are worlds apart and require different development mindsets and methodolgies for programming and testing. And finally, the massive content available in modern console titles requires a huge effort to manage the content within the game framework.

One downside to mutli-core development and the mis-management of threads are race conditions and conflicts between threads on different processors. This can result in what we see as freezes, lock-ups ect.

I am not making excuses for EA, 2K Sports, Ubisoft or anyone else, I'd just like to shed a little light on the subject.

[Rodster]

Re: Patch Discussion

Well, I did it again. In my desperation to have a baseball game this season on my 360, I re-bought the game. I thought I would give it a try after the recent patch. Loaded the game, downloaded patch, created a profile, adjusted sliders. Top of the 2nd -----Wham!!! System freezes

I'm really glad some now are finally enjoying their game and it's a shame others like you are still seeing problems after the patch.

Personally i'm glad I didn't buy the game and I didn't have to deal with this disaster. What's truly amazing is that multi-thread programming has been around for a while and note the popularity of AMD's Dual Core CPU's.

I would expect to see goofups like this in a PC game where they have to deal with thousands and thousands of different PC configurations. But I have a problem when a piece of software is written for a specific machine and has problems like a OS for a Mac, or a Game written for a machine like a console where it's a closed system.

We shouldn't have to put up with these problems when a game developer doesn't have to deal with a constantly moving target like the PC enviroment.

[EdRaynes]

Re: Patch Discussion

I'm really glad some now are finally enjoying their game and it's a shame others like you are still seeing problems after the patch.

Personally i'm glad I didn't buy the game and I didn't have to deal with this disaster. What's truly amazing is that multi-thread programming has been around for a while and note the popularity of AMD's Dual Core CPU's.

I would expect to see goofups like this in a PC game where they have to deal with thousands and thousands of different PC configurations. But I have a problem when a piece of software is written for a specific machine and has problems like a OS for a Mac, or a Game written for a machine like a console where it's a closed system.

We shouldn't have to put up with these problems when a game developer doesn't have to deal with a constantly moving target like the PC enviroment.

Thanks for the empathy. I should have known better.

But yeah, mutlithreaded programming on multiple cores has been done for quite some time, however for the first time ever, we have a multiple core game console, and the article in SD Times hinted at the lack of expertise in that area with commercial game developers.

[babythug23]

Re: Patch Discussion

Do i need to download the patch? I never had a freeze and i just started a season( 2 games in). I heard ppl haveing it freeze up on them after the patch and didnt have problems before

[Rodster]

Re: Patch Discussion

Do i need to download the patch? I never had a freeze and i just started a season( 2 games in). I heard ppl haveing it freeze up on them after the patch and didnt have problems before

As the saying goes "If it ain't broke.. don't fix it".