The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

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  • Trevytrev11
    MVP
    • Nov 2006
    • 3259

    #106
    Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

    Originally posted by NoSkillz50
    Basically I think we have zone hitting for a reason instead of invisible cursors. I assume you want a cursor to get realistic spontaneity in bat / ball physics. So to get this effect the cursor, although it is invisible, cannot be any bigger than the bat. I assume what will change is how big the sweet spot is for better players. I do think it gets a little convoluted when using a sweet spot to along with a power and or contact attribute as well, kind of seems like having a system in a hockey game where lighter players are faster than bigger players, but then not all players of the same weight go the same speed so you also have to add on an extra speed rating as well. I'm not sure exactly how it would work, but I could see this getting in the way of the programmers trying to balance power and contact with 3 attributes that overlap, I'm not sure what kind of attribute system you would use or just how the cursor would work.
    I think most people would even take a zone system, but we don't have the luxury of that either.

    I would think you would have:
    -a contact attribute-this would basically determine the size of your cursor. The higher the contact rating, the bigger the cursor. I think you have to have this system or else what else seperates a guy like David Eckstein from Richie Sexson?
    -a power attribute-this would basically determine how hard the ball comes off of the bat.
    **I don't know if you need a third attribute, but maybe
    -a sweetspot attribute which would determine how hard the ball comes off the bat for a given area of the bat.
    (The way I see this is if the cursor and all was visually displayed, as you moved it around the zone, the sweetspot would constantly change).

    Originally posted by NoSkillz50
    If the cursor is designed to represent an area bigger than the bat I don't see the point is using a cursor, because then the computer still decides the exact placement of the bat and therefore you lose all the reason for using a cursor system over a zone hitting system in the first place.
    When I think zone, I think 4 or 9 squars. And you just press in the direction of the square you think the ball is going to land in and time your swing. Even if a cursor is larger than a bat it still requires you to line it up with the ball, which is different from zone in which you would just press a direction. I think cursor sizes have to be different to reflect the difference between a contact guy and a guy who swings and misses alot. How would you determine this in zone? Strictly by rating?

    My reasoning against it being determined by rating is my common argument against anything determined by ratings and it is that I want to control what happens in the game. It's the reason I play the games. I would not like it if I had a chance to win a game by getting a hit, and I do everything right, but the game decides that it is my time to swing and miss and I lose.

    In the same breath, would you want a pitching system in which the game was on the line and you wanted your pitcher to throw a slider on the corner, but the games ratings determined at that instant it was his turn to hang a slider and you lost because of something you had no control over?

    For thos that want this system, I'm all for you having what you want also. I think 4 or 5 different hitting systems would be great for the individual (though problems would arise online as people would feel that they are not on a level playing field).

    Originally posted by NoSkillz50
    As far as how it works in practice I think possibly you underestimated how little time you have to react. Cursor systems usually involve a visible cursor and at least a visual cue to the pitch location. On top of this they use a simple buttom press over an analogued swing animation system and they still manage to be very challenging. I just wonder if somebody will be able to place an invisible cursor on a ball and time it properly while swinging with an analog stick. Even if it used force feedback rumble to tell you when you hit the edge of the zone it seems like it still would just be too hard. I think it might get frustrating without having any visual refrence in your mind to how fast this cursor is moving and how big it is and not quite knowing what you did wrong when you mess up. In The Show you instantly pick a zone and you know where you missed if you miss and swinging is as simple as pressing a button. In real life if you miss over the top you instantly know where you missed, its never really a mystery.
    This part is the unknown. Only after actually playing with a system like this (invisable cursor), would we be able to to know if it felt right or not. I do remember the first WSB's on the dreamcast, which did use a cursor. The one thing I remember is that it definitely was a reaction to swing the bat and once you became comfortable with the movements of the cursor, you were able to react to fast pitches and execute a swing.

    I think here lies another part of the problem. Many people won't give a new system a chance if they don't get instant gratification. Better, worse or indifferent, if people go two games in a row and only get 3 or 4 hits, most will have already decided the system is flawed and they will go back to what they are comfortable with, even if it means losing out on an overall better experience down the road.

    We already have people bagging on the new 2K8 system without playing it and have people bagging on other systems after just reading about them.

    I remember last year with 2K7, I had a problem of swinging too hard with my R stick and I would actually press the button in and bunt. I was convinced the game was broken until after a few games, I learned to smooth things out and erased the problem.
    Last edited by Trevytrev11; 02-05-2008, 04:38 PM.

    Comment

    • myghty
      MVP
      • Mar 2005
      • 2395

      #107
      Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

      Originally posted by bsb13
      Come on now, you know you like to taste the rainbow.
      "In a year that has been so improbable, the impossible has happened." - Vin Scully

      PS5/PSN: myghty

      Comment

      • maverick3176
        Banned
        • Mar 2005
        • 363

        #108
        Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

        Originally posted by Trevytrev11
        I think most people would even take a zone system, but we don't have the luxury of that either.

        I would think you would have:
        -a contact attribute-this would basically determine the size of your cursor. The higher the contact rating, the bigger the cursor. I think you have to have this system or else what else seperates a guy like David Eckstein from Richie Sexson?
        -a power attribute-this would basically determine how hard the ball comes off of the bat.
        **I don't know if you need a third attribute, but maybe
        -a sweetspot attribute which would determine how hard the ball comes off the bat for a given area of the bat.



        When I think zone, I think 4 or 9 squars. And you just press in the direction of the square you think the ball is going to land in and time your swing. Even if a cursor is larger than a bat it still requires you to line it up with the ball, which is different from zone in which you would just press a direction. I think cursor sizes have to be different to reflect the difference between a contact guy and a guy who swings and misses alot. How would you determine this in zone? Strictly by rating?

        My reasoning against it being determined by rating is my common argument against anything determined by ratings and it is that I want to control what happens in the game. It's the reason I play the games. I would not like it if I had a chance to win a game by getting a hit, and I do everything right, but the game decides that it is my time to swing and miss and I lose.

        In the same breath, would you want a pitching system in which the game was on the line and you wanted your pitcher to throw a slider on the corner, but the games ratings determined at that instant it was his turn to hang a slider and you lost because of something you had no control over?

        For thos that want this system, I'm all for you having what you want also. I think 4 or 5 different hitting systems would be great for the individual (though problems would arise online as people would feel that they are not on a level playing field).



        This part is the unknown. Only after actually playing with a system like this (invisable cursor), would we be able to to know if it felt right or not. I do remember the first WSB's on the dreamcast, which did use a cursor. The one thing I remember is that it definitely was a reaction to swing the bat and once you became comfortable with the movements of the cursor, you were able to react to fast pitches and execute a swing.

        I think here lies another part of the problem. Many people won't give a new system a chance if they don't get instant gratification. Better, worse or indifferent, if people go two games in a row and only get 3 or 4 hits, most will have already decided the system is flawed and they will go back to what they are comfortable with, even if it means losing out on an overall better experience down the road.

        I remember last year with 2K7, I had a problem of swinging too hard with my R stick and I would actually press the button in and bunt. I was convinced the game was broken until after a few games, I learned to smooth things out and erased the problem.
        I was about to respond to the guys post but you really hit EVERY point on the head. I can tell you have a great understanding of the system I am speaking about.

        Here is a KEY point though. Re-read my first few posts in this thread. Most of these features could be turned on and off so you could customize the hitting system. With the customization you could go with the difficult system i am proposing or a 2k3 type system with a cursor, a 2k5 system without a cursor or a 2k8 system that is a timed swing stick. or anything in between

        Comment

        • jaxpac
          Rookie
          • Sep 2003
          • 93

          #109
          Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

          They should just try to emulate the hitting system from the HH series. I really don't like any baseball game where you are aiming where you want to hit the ball. You should be aiming you swing, not where to hit the ball. So in this respect I like the cursor system.

          The problem with the cursor system is that it is harder to react quickly to pitches. The HH system allowed for you to see a high fastball and immediately react to it if you were quick enough. A very satisfying and fair hitting system and the best in my view.

          Comment

          • EnigmaNemesis
            Animal Liberation
            • Apr 2006
            • 12216

            #110
            Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

            Originally posted by jaxpac
            They should just try to emulate the hitting system from the HH series. I really don't like any baseball game where you are aiming where you want to hit the ball. You should be aiming you swing, not where to hit the ball. So in this respect I like the cursor system.

            The problem with the cursor system is that it is harder to react quickly to pitches. The HH system allowed for you to see a high fastball and immediately react to it if you were quick enough. A very satisfying and fair hitting system and the best in my view.
            /agree

            Timing with cursor is the best IMO!
            Boston Red Sox | Miami Dolphins

            Comment

            • bsb13
              Banned
              • Mar 2005
              • 3439

              #111
              Re: The best hitting system EVER. I think I will call it TOTAL REALISM OFFENSE

              Originally posted by myghty
              lol, dont take that seriously.

              Comment

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