"This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

[CMH]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I should be clear.
It isn't an either or thing. I'm saying gameplay AND more should have been worked on. You're all just happy to get a better gameplay, I want the whole enchalada. Con queso y chips on the side too, man. Right now, it looks like you can choose the "house" for sale that has a great look, but, for the same price you can get that same house with better fixtures, nicer faucets, a screened in deck, crown molding, better carpet, nice tile, and even there is a finished basement with crown molding and trey ceilings.

Hows that for an anolgoy?

Ok, lets dive deeper. I don't like bringing up The Show in these discussions but it's obvious that it already was.

The Show took a few years before it got to where it's at. Why can't 2k take that same time? It seems like everyone is expecting them to be better than The Show in just two years. It took The Show at least three years before it was recognized as the better gaeme in the market. Prior to that, people kept ignoring it.

[ryan720]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

on that note, im still not convinced that 08 is better than 2k8, I haven't played either!

[CMH]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

It'll come down to how realistic the hitting system is. If hitting is realistic then I think 2k8 will get it's props.


If people are still hitting 5-10 homeruns a game then forget the rest. And I'd gladly yell with anyone else if hitting homeruns is as easy as they were in 2k7.

[davewins]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

its obvious they really focused on gameplay this yea...hopefully a lot of the things you mentioned are included for 2k9. What good is it to have an awesome crowd if the game plays like crap.

Couldn't agree anymore. Gameplay and a core gameplay comes first and foremost. It's the foundation of the game. Every little other feature means nothing if the game doesn't play a great game of baseball. Everything else means so much more when the game does play a good game of baseball.

Just think if Brinkman was there from 2k6 to 2k8 instead of 2k7 to 2k9. Think about what kind of game we would have this year because last year would of been the gameplay year. Now this year we are going to get improved gameplay and maybe even a downgrade in graphics (to get it @ 60fps) but next year we will have awesome gameplay from this year which will be polished even more and the graphics and little things will start coming into the game.

Of course this is wishful thinking as I have not even played this year yet but this is what I'm hoping for.

[bluengold34_OS]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I complain about 2k only because it seems that some of the flaws or so simplistic to my eyes and ears. I can hear the bat sound like crap, I can see the awkward batting and fielding animations. I say to myself " can they not see and hear the same stuff"

I like the game a lot last year, it was at times, a lot of fun. I just don't understand trying to re-create wheel, when all we really care about first and foremost is the game plays a fundamentally sound game of baseball. Graphics are huge, but not above gameplay. It sounds like they really tried to improve that this year, and I guess instead of complaining about this or that( which I have done ) I will just wait until the game is in my hands and see for my self.

I don't create games for a living and I don't pretend to understand the nuances of how it works, other than some basic rudimentary skills. Maybe the code was SO bad that they did have to strip it down and start new. I guess if they are willing to go through that work, knowing the criticism they are going to receive for lack of forward progress, than that tells me that Ben and the group care enough about this product to put that time in and take the criticism, to make/ create a much better foundation to build on.

PS: The house analogy was very good.

[sask3m]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I say TEAR DOWN THE FU.CKIN HOUSE AND BUILD A NEW ONE!!!

The foundation is weak. With a newer engine this could be the greatest baseball game ever.

You can only spray so much perfume on a pile of crap.

This still looks like the same engine they used in 2K5.


Discuss....

i gotta agree here, something about this game just isn't right, they lower graphics to improve the framerate but by the vids the players still move herky jerky, they also really need to add a classic pitching option and variability slider for us who absolutley hate all the meters and flashing graphics in this game, it doesn't even look like a baseball game when you watch it, its almost turning into the bigs or one of those two on two basketball games where guys get on fire, just don't think i will be able to get into this game.

[jfsolo]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I complain about 2k only because it seems that some of the flaws or so simplistic to my eyes and ears. I can hear the bat sound like crap, I can see the awkward batting and fielding animations. I say to myself " can they not see and hear the same stuff"

I like the game a lot last year, it was at times, a lot of fun. I just don't understand trying to re-create wheel, when all we really care about first and foremost is the game plays a fundamentally sound game of baseball. Graphics are huge, but not above gameplay. It sounds like they really tried to improve that this year, and I guess instead of complaining about this or that( which I have done ) I will just wait until the game is in my hands and see for my self.

I don't create games for a living and I don't pretend to understand the nuances of how it works, other than some basic rudimentary skills. Maybe the code was SO bad that they did have to strip it down and start new. I guess if they are willing to go through that work, knowing the criticism they are going to receive for lack of forward progress, than that tells me that Ben and the group care enough about this product to put that time in and take the criticism, to make/ create a much better foundation to build on.

PS: The house analogy was very good.

I don't know if you read Kush's comments about the code that governed hitting results, but it was rotten to the core. Certain programming decisions doom a game to mediocrity unless those elements are excised from the product.

Look at EA's football products. When they went from sprites to polygons they made some programming decisions that still haunt Madden and NCAA over a decade later.

If you've got termites and a carbon monoxide leak in your house, you sure as hell aren't going to worry about a screened in deck and trey ceilings(I don't even know what those things are, but then I'm a Neanderthal)

[ehh]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

7. Create a delivery, or create a batting stance.

They have this in 2K7.

I'm still glad they're focusing on gameplay this year, I really, really enjoyed 2K7 post-patch and I know I'll be very pleased with 2K8 even if it's not perfect. Hopefully they'll release another patch this year as well to correct any early issues.

One thing that I really hope they focus on next year is atmosphere and the crowd. I want stadiums to be going crazy when a big play happens, I want to feel the stadium shaking it, etc. Pump some emotion into the series!

[UncleMo]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I say TEAR DOWN THE FU.CKIN HOUSE AND BUILD A NEW ONE!!!

The foundation is weak. With a newer engine this could be the greatest baseball game ever.

You can only spray so much perfume on a pile of crap.

This still looks like the same engine they used in 2K5.


Discuss....

Where you been KC?

[bluengold34_OS]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I don't know if you read Kush's comments about the code that governed hitting results, but it was rotten to the core. Certain programming decisions doom a game to mediocrity unless those elements are excised from the product.

Look at EA's football products. When they went from sprites to polygons they made some programming decisions that still haunt Madden and NCAA over a decade later.

If you've got termites and a carbon monoxide leak in your house, you sure as hell aren't going to worry about a screened in deck and trey ceilings(I don't even know what those things are, but then I'm a Neanderthal)

Yeah I read story much earlier, but I was somewhat skeptical( see Madden Code re-write)But its starting to sound and look like they really did that. If they did that, then I am impressed, that takes a ton of hard work and man hours to re-do, hence my belief that it is starting to come through that this game was so f'ed up down to the core, that it may be a four year project. If we get a great game out of it in the end, I will find patience enough and give this team time and stop complaining.

Now if they could rip the marketing strategy down to the core and start over,............

[ryan720]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I don't know if you read Kush's comments about the code that governed hitting results, but it was rotten to the core. Certain programming decisions doom a game to mediocrity unless those elements are excised from the product.

Look at EA's football products. When they went from sprites to polygons they made some programming decisions that still haunt Madden and NCAA over a decade later.

If you've got termites and a carbon monoxide leak in your house, you sure as hell aren't going to worry about a screened in deck and trey ceilings(I don't even know what those things are, but then I'm a Neanderthal)

exactly, so patching up the foundation (game play) can fix up the carbon monoxide leak... Which was the aim of this years game, to stop the carbon monoxide!

[BBondsRod]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

One thing that I really hope they focus on next year is atmosphere and the crowd. I want stadiums to be going crazy when a big play happens, I want to feel the stadium shaking it, etc. Pump some emotion into the series!

I can't agree with you more. This is REALLY what the game needs...I hate hearing four people clapping on a walk off home run in game 7 of the World Series. That being said, I don't think any game has really ever gotten the sound right to create the true atmosphere of a baseball game. You're right, it would be amazing if they could create the impression of the stadium shaking with sound, and for example, after a homerun, there should still be a buzz from the crowd's initial reaction that carries on into the plays after.

[CMH]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I can't agree with you more. This is REALLY what the game needs...I hate hearing four people clapping on a walk off home run in game 7 of the World Series. That being said, I don't think any game has really ever gotten the sound right to create the true atmosphere of a baseball game. You're right, it would be amazing if they could create the impression of the stadium shaking with sound, and for example, after a homerun, there should still be a buzz from the crowd's initial reaction that carries on into the plays after.

Very true.

Outside of lack of emotion from a crowd, I have yet to see a game in which the crowd carries over into the next play. This is a must for crowd atmosphere.

After that big homerun, I should still hear the crowd as the next batter steps to the plate and receives his first pitch. Instead of a dead silence, the crowd should slowly quiet down all while still reacting to what's going on.

So, if the next hitter weakly grounds out to short on the first pitch then the crowd may react to that. However, if all of a sudden the pitcher is getting wild and the first two pitches are balls then the crowd should feed on that. Their intensity should remain.

I want to be that pitcher that starts to really feel like everything is falling apart. Or step up to the plate and feel the crowd behind me as I wait on that 2-0 fastball just minutes after my fellow teammate hit the big crowd pleasing shot.

[inkcil]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

Very true.

Outside of lack of emotion from a crowd, I have yet to see a game in which the crowd carries over into the next play. This is a must for crowd atmosphere.

After that big homerun, I should still hear the crowd as the next batter steps to the plate and receives his first pitch. Instead of a dead silence, the crowd should slowly quiet down all while still reacting to what's going on.

So, if the next hitter weakly grounds out to short on the first pitch then the crowd may react to that. However, if all of a sudden the pitcher is getting wild and the first two pitches are balls then the crowd should feed on that. Their intensity should remain.

I want to be that pitcher that starts to really feel like everything is falling apart. Or step up to the plate and feel the crowd behind me as I wait on that 2-0 fastball just minutes after my fellow teammate hit the big crowd pleasing shot.

Several baseball series have gotten these aspects right. Just not 2k.

[ryan720]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

Very true.

Outside of lack of emotion from a crowd, I have yet to see a game in which the crowd carries over into the next play. This is a must for crowd atmosphere.

After that big homerun, I should still hear the crowd as the next batter steps to the plate and receives his first pitch. Instead of a dead silence, the crowd should slowly quiet down all while still reacting to what's going on.

So, if the next hitter weakly grounds out to short on the first pitch then the crowd may react to that. However, if all of a sudden the pitcher is getting wild and the first two pitches are balls then the crowd should feed on that. Their intensity should remain.

I want to be that pitcher that starts to really feel like everything is falling apart. Or step up to the plate and feel the crowd behind me as I wait on that 2-0 fastball just minutes after my fellow teammate hit the big crowd pleasing shot.

on that note, i'd love field specific reactions.. IE fans in the bronx standing with 2 strikes, wrigley fans throwing the ball back, or even not specific ones, like hanging up K's through out the stadium, even cut scenes for major homeruns... then again, all that stuff is secondary to the gameplay, so lets see how that goes before I get ahead of myself.