"This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

[baa7]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

But lets not kid ourselves... it's the end product of a game engine that's been in place for at least four or five years.

The 2K game engine goes back to 2K3 at least apparently. But I get your point.

However, IMO, it makes no sense that several basic and key aspects of the game have gone untouched, even since Brinkman's arrival. Keep in mind he's been in charge going on two years now. And after all that time, there really is no excuse for the terrible bat sounds to still be in the game, for the exact same stale commentary from 2K5, for the almost complete lack of atmosphere and crowd noise, and for photos of players from 3 years ago.

One would think these issues would be the first areas to be worked on, given how visible and how much a part of the pitch-by-pitch aspect of the game they are. Yet instead of fixing them -- and remember, some of these problems go back to 2K5 -- the development team spent their time adding a new card system.

In other words, this 'Brinkman year-two' thing wasn't just about fixing gameplay. The development team had plenty of time to work on other areas of the game as well. And rather than fix basic things that have been an issue with the series for four years, they chose instead to spend their time creating a new feature, one that has absolutely nothing to do with improving and fixing the on-field product. Very, very bizarre IMO.

[baa7]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

39.99 for the game sounds about right. Add some extras and next year make it 59.99.

I just wanted to get in on the house analogy.

I don't think lowering the price is the right answer. It was half a game like APF, sure. But 2K8 is the whole package. Heck, it even has... cards.

In keeping with the house analogy, this is why people hire realtors and home inspectors, and why they don't rush out and buy the house, just because it's on the market. If it's not worth the money they're asking, don't put an offer on it

[DrJones]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

The development team had plenty of time to work on other areas of the game as well.

You'd be surprised.

And rather than fix basic things that have been an issue with the series for four years, they chose instead to spend their time creating a new feature, one that has absolutely nothing to do with improving and fixing the on-field product. Very, very bizarre IMO.

I can't speak for Kush or 2K, I can only relate my experiences at EA. Executives demand new features to market. They aren't concerned with "improving and fixing the on-field product" unless it's so atrocious that it's absolutely killing sales. Producers (like Ben) always have to "sell" their game to the higher-ups. In my experience, going to the higher-ups and saying, "It's really important to us to fix the little things" will always meet with a frosty reception. Is that an excuse for all the issues you bring up in your post? Nope. Just saying it's rarely a black-and-white situation.

[jfsolo]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

Ben joined 2K in mid-June, months into the 2K7 cycle after the 2K6 debacle. There is no way he could've "gotten it right at the start" and still made the ship date. If 2K7 didn't ship on time, they would've had to pay MLB several million dollars in penalties, and the 2K baseball line would've joined All-Star and High Heat in baseball videogame heaven.

A lot of people will ignore this reality and complain vehemently, because he didn't fix the things that were most important to them first.

The 2K game engine goes back to 2K3 at least apparently. But I get your point.

However, IMO, it makes no sense that several basic and key aspects of the game have gone untouched, even since Brinkman's arrival. Keep in mind he's been in charge going on two years now. And after all that time, there really is no excuse for the terrible bat sounds to still be in the game, for the exact same stale commentary from 2K5, for the almost complete lack of atmosphere and crowd noise, and for photos of players from 3 years ago.

One would think these issues would be the first areas to be worked on, given how visible and how much a part of the pitch-by-pitch aspect of the game they are. Yet instead of fixing them -- and remember, some of these problems go back to 2K5 -- the development team spent their time adding a new card system.

In other words, this 'Brinkman year-two' thing wasn't just about fixing gameplay. The development team had plenty of time to work on other areas of the game as well. And rather than fix basic things that have been an issue with the series for four years, they chose instead to spend their time creating a new feature, one that has absolutely nothing to do with improving and fixing the on-field product. Very, very bizarre IMO.

I don't really care about those areas that I've highlighted so, I take the viewpoint that he did the right thing in choosing to assign those issues as a being a lower priority in the revamping checklist.

I think all of us should know by now that just because someone is the Lead Producer, it doesn't mean that they have a free reign to implement features as they see fit. This is just speculation on my part, but I get the feeling that persons higher up on the food chain mandated a high profile casual friendly feature like the card game.

Edit: I started typing this before I read Dr. Jones' reply, but chose to still post it anyway to underscore the point that so much goes on that we on the outside don't see, but by now should know exists, and hinders much of what we would like to see accomplished.

[specialman]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

My only concern is regarding the hitting and whether it's timed only or not. I personally think this is completely unacceptable (though I'll still be buying the game).

[bsb13]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

Ben's a good guy and an excellent producer. But this "Ben single-handedly transfromed Triple Play into MVP" myth really needs to die, 'cause it ain't true.

I know A LOT of guy's made MVP what it was. I know ben gets a lot of love for it, but I know guys like you, and many others made that game special.

[baa7]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I personally think this is completely unacceptable (though I'll still be buying the game).

Isn't this why inferior game franchises like Madden continue to be successful? Something to ponder as you hand the EB employee your money.

I agree with you: removing zone hitting is completely unacceptable. And for the third year in a row I quite probably won't be buying the game. I'll rent it again, sure. But judging from the less-than-inspiring videos and the fact that hitting continues to be so simplistic, chances are good I am not going to reward 2K for putting out yet another mediocre game, by actually giving them my money. That makes less sense to me than 2K not fixing things in their game that have been an issue for four years.

[bsb13]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

Isn't this why inferior game franchises like Madden continue to be successful? Something to ponder as you hand the EB employee your money.

I agree with you: removing zone hitting is completely unacceptable. And for the third year in a row I quite probably won't be buying the game. I'll rent it again, sure. But judging from the less-than-inspiring videos and the fact that hitting continues to be so simplistic, chances are good I am not going to reward 2K for putting out yet another mediocre game, by actually giving them my money. That makes less sense to me than 2K not fixing things in their game that have been an issue for four years.

I'm like you. I'm know longer gonna go out and buy new games because it has a new year on it. I'm tired of looking to next year for the perfect game. I have learned my lesson and I'm gonna wait and see.

I'm tired of spending my hard of money on slight upgrades. It's not their fault but it aint my fault either.

[baa7]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

A lot of people will ignore this reality and complain vehemently, because he didn't fix the things that were most important to them first.

Gosh, that sounds like every voter in America, discussing their government. Or every union member, talking about their employer. Or every athlete with his agent, negotiating a new contract. Sounds like everybody, in other words.

I've read this POV many times of course in this forum. I suppose the point of it is to shut people up by making them feel selfish and stupid for 'complaining'. The fact is though, this is a discussion forum. And people on this thread are discussing, not complaining.

[baa7]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I'm like you. I know longer gonna go out and buy new games because it has a new year on it. I'm tired of looking to next year for the perfect game. I have learned my lesson and I'm gonna wait and see.

I'm tired of spending my hard of money on slight upgrades. It's not their fault but it aint my fault either.

Truth is, the decision is much easier when you own a PS2 as I do. I at least have another choice. On the other hand, PS2's are so cheap now they're practically giving them away. So there's really no reason everybody can't play a quality baseball game this spring.

[bsb13]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

Truth is, the decision is much easier when you own a PS2 as I do. I at least have another choice. On the other hand, PS2's are so cheap now they're practically giving them away. So there's really no reason everybody can't play a quality baseball game this spring.

I agree, I have a PS2 too.

I just miss the days when we had High Heat, ASB, MVP, MLB and so on.

[baa7]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I just miss the days when we had High Heat, ASB, MVP, MLB and so on.

Okay, but IMO it doesnt get much better than that other baseball game. These are the good days!

[Motown]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

Okay, but IMO it doesnt get much better than that other baseball game. These are the good days!

Are you referring to The Show baa, or is it taboo to mention the word here
seriously 2k baseball's not that bad man. this game is leap & bounds better than 5,6,& prolly 7 version, & Brinkman's got it headed in the right direction...i think.
I would LUV for 2k to put an emphasis on the classic teams & actually have the ability to edit the players names & historical teams AND add tons of historical ballparks...but gameplay always comes 1st...then presentation.

*edit* last 3 lines applies to The Show as well.

[baa7]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

but gameplay always comes 1st...then presentation

I agree with that. But at some point, poor presentation can make a game unplayable. I preferred NHL 2K8 to NHL 08 this year in some gameplay areas. But the animations, presentation and commentary in 2k8 are all so bad that I honestly couldn't stomach playing it for more than a few minutes. And after playing FIFA on the 360 for two years, I find it impossible to go back to the PES series given its dull and lacklustre presentation.

I can tell by looking and listening to the vids of MLB 2K8 that regardless of any gameplay improvements, that game for me is probably going to be difficult to play for any length of time. The crowd sounds, the onfield sounds, the commentary... it all adds up to too much blecch to have to try and ignore, especially when I'm spending $60-$70 on these games.

[DrJones]

Re: "This is where we thought we'd be"-BB

I know A LOT of guy's made MVP what it was. I know ben gets a lot of love for it, but I know guys like you, and many others made that game special.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn, Ben was a much bigger cog than I. And Ben certainly doesn't perpetuate the "saviour" myth, he's embarrassed by it. I'm just saying there are a lot of factors in play. I started on that series with Triple Play 2000, and it wasn't until MVP 2005 that we finally got close to the game that I (and others) wanted to make all along. It's not as easy as saying, "I think the game should have these features, and it should play like this." I wish.