AI Will Take Strikes

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I just got done playing a game, and I started getting used to the pitching. I did actually have some success working the count and even got a looking third strike on a nice circle change. I'm not getting into a AI dispute, but the hitters were selective on stuff that was borderline. To me, the problem really is that the CPU won't swing at borderline junk enough. Real baseball isn't just overpowering the hitter or getting that perfect pitch by him. It's mixing in the 12-6 curve or breaking ball that looks like a strike only to have the bottom fall out and end up looking stupid. This game makes you put too much stuff right in the zone to get the CPU to swing. And then they get too much good wood.

I'm not unhappy with the game, just wish it was a little more imperfect. But I am getting a better grip on the way to play the pitching game as my skill with the RS improves. I just wish the transition animations were better. That's my big buzz-kill right now. All in all, probably buy after you guys beta-test! LOL.....

[baa7]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

To me, the problem really is that the CPU won't swing at borderline junk enough.

That's sounds like the common complaint and actual problem, and which could be easily be fixed had they not removed the sliders that dictate whether the CPU takes strikes or chases balls.

[Maynard]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

As it is now, low difficulty or not, on default the CPU simply doesn't take what I would consider enough strikes.

co sign......i have seen some called strikes, but the cpu is swinging 9 out of 10 times in the zone. Some people may be seeing more called strikes then others, but not me. I feel that this is a real problem that will plague this game. It will be one of those problems where the developers say that some feel there are enough called strikes, and some feel there are not enough called strikes, so in the end we left this alone.

another thing about this is that when i was able to get called strikes, it was ONLY when i was painting the corners and getting what might be considered borderline calls. The cpu never took a pitch that was in the strike zone. Real MLB players will take a 1st pitch strike, just because. And they also lay off breaking balls early in the count. I never see these taken strikes in the demo

[Qb]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

That's sounds like the common complaint and actual problem, and which could be easily be fixed had they not removed the sliders that dictate whether the CPU takes strikes or chases balls.

Is it confirmed that the AI Batting/Pitching Tendency sliders have been removed? In 2K8, I was able to get somewhat realistic hitting behavior out of the AI with those sliders, in addition to getting the AI to throw enough balls to get a few walks per game if I was patient at the plate. If they did indeed take them out, that is a major bummer and incredibly confounding...

[Padgoi]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I am of the firm belief, you should not have to pitch like Mr. Perfect to get the computer to take strikes.

Player tendencies should have a major role. If he is a first pitch swinger, then fine, but if he is a first pitch looker, then he should not be swinging, regardless of ball placement.

I should not have to orchestrate 100% of the time, the CPU into taking strikes. Player tendencies should play a role. Does this guy look at high strikes often on a 2-1 count and then take the pitch? Then it should apply.

As of right now, it seems like you have to "paint the corners or else".

Yes those instances should be important, but it seems the only way to do it, is the extreme sided nature of pinpoint control. There should a bunch of instances where they take a lot of pitches looking (in 2-1 counts, 1-1 counts, 3-1 counts, etc), even ones that catch a lot of the plate, and as it stands, they do not.

So basically what you're saying is you want a slider (or hitting rating) that shows plate discipline in certain ball-strike count situations? I've noticed most of your posts being very critical of this game, but come on now, this is utterly absurd. Not even your Bible (the other game) has ratings for each batter for certain pitch counts.

[baa7]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

Is it confirmed that the AI Batting/Pitching Tendency sliders have been removed?

According to the screens Steve posted of the various sliders in the game, they've been removed. The Throw Strength slider is also gone from the looks of it.

[stealyerface]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

To institute a ratings-based structure of taking pitches would soon become too scripted and feel fake. I talked about this at length in an earlier post. I believe that the 2k8 style of pitching (pitch, gesture, release) that I will immediately implement when I get the game will resolve a lot of the CPU feeling like it "knows" that the pitch will be a strike. That new pitching mechanic is just lame. I could throw an entire game in 2k8 with no meatballs, and working the edges was more than rewarding with the release points. I am certain that this will help with the CPU hacking at everything.

The other thing with regards to this (on topic) is that I hope the IE will not be abused. I played 5 games yesterday, and each one I used the IE data more effectively. I struck out Ryan Howard everytime I face him, and twice he watched the called third strike. If you click the IE indicator, you see a very nice grid based on tendencies and hit % based on location. You also see what pitch he handles worse or better than others. So, when I got two strikes on him, I went under the hands, low and inside, with a Kazmir slider. 5k's later, I am hoping that this "cheat sheet" is not going to translate into 15k's a game. I certainly hope that the Inside Edge takes the pitchers into some part of the equation. Cole Hamel's changeup should buckle more batter's knees than some 5th starter for the Pirates.

Overall, the three-part pitching process and using the plate to keep the batters off balance ought to alleviate them hacking at everything close. That and maybe some slider tweaks.

syf

[MastorofPuppetz]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

That would make sense to me as well.

As it is now, low difficulty or not, on default the CPU simply doesn't take what I would consider enough strikes.

If people think the CPU is taking an adequate amount of strikes compared to a baseball game... more power to them. I'm simply looking forward to the final copy of the game and the possibilities to tweak this even tighter... SOME way.

No sports game or baseball game in history had the CPU take a realistic amount of strikes.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

So basically what you're saying is you want a slider (or hitting rating) that shows plate discipline in certain ball-strike count situations? I've noticed most of your posts being very critical of this game, but come on now, this is utterly absurd. Not even your Bible (the other game) has ratings for each batter for certain pitch counts.

His idea would be in a perfect world I'm sure, but even if they could designate hitters into just several groups of aggressiveness would be a vast improvement. You have guys like Jason Kendall who almost never take the bat off of their shoulder until a strike hase been thrown and sometimes two strikes depending on the count/situation (in his second year with the A's it wasn't until like his 30th or 40th game of the season until he finally a swung at a first pitch) and then you have guys like Vlad who will swing at almost any pitch in any count...something needs to be done or else your always going ot be able to throw a complete game in 60 pitches, which is just unrealistic.

If they give hitters one of these "personalities" at least there would be randomness and you wouldn't know if a hitter was a swinger or a taker on the 2-0 curveball, but they wouldn't all be the same.

The thing that gets me the most isn't so much the swinging at strikes, but the pitch types they swing at. You get a guy 2-0 and throw him a perfect curve on the corner and they swing. It's a pitch 95% of hitters are going to take in almost every situation. Even a curve near the center of the plate is off limits to most hitters when they are ahead in the count. When a hitter is ahead in the count, there is pressure on the pitcher to throw a strike, which forces most pitchers to go to their most reliable and most accurate pitch which for 95% of guys is the fastball....pitch selectionto most hitters is as much about location as it is about pitch type, especially when the count is in their favor.

The other part of this debacle is on the pitchers side. When you sit there and can throw 95% of your pitches for strikes, in reality, the hitter should be agrressive. It's why Maddux would throw CG's with 80-90 pitches. Hitters knew he would be aggressive in the zone and were aggressive back. Obviously this is not the case in the game as the AI obviously doesn't have this adaptive AI (you know this because you can throw 12 straight balls and then throw a nasty curve on the corner and they will swing).

[allBthere]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

like some people have said the AI does take strikes. My problem is that I've only seen it on the first pitch once. Like others have said, some guys will simply not swing at the first pitch, especially if it's not a fastball.

[Pared]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

No sports game or baseball game in history had the CPU take a realistic amount of strikes.

Oh grief, here we go with this defense.

Comments like this are why people bring up The Show, MVP and High Heat.

"Realistic" is subject to interpretation. As it is in the demo, it's nowhere close IMO. Of course, they'll make it better next year and then you'll gush over it then as well.

[Flaxseed Oil]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I struck out Pena` and Kazmir` looking, and I got Upton on a check swing called strike.

[Qb]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

So basically what you're saying is you want a slider (or hitting rating) that shows plate discipline in certain ball-strike count situations?

Ratings in that level of detail would be a bit much, but isn't that what "Inside Edge" is supposed to contribute to the game? It has data on success for specific zones & pitches, and I thought it was supposed to dictate tendencies as well. There was (in 2K8) a plate discipline rating for each player; I'm just not sure how much of an effect it has on an actual at-bat...

As for the slider side of things, in 2K8 there were AI tendency sliders for take strikes & balls overall/ahead/behind (ie, "specific counts" to a degree). I was able to get acceptable results after much manipulation, but unfortunately those sliders weren't seen in screens posted by Steve_OS from his preview build. If those are indeed gone, we could be stuck with the AI hitting in its out-of-the-box state, which in my opinion is too aggressive. I have seen the AI take some stikes when I've made good pitches, but I don't think I will be satisfied with it the way it is...

PS - Didn't Steve say that he was able to tone done the AI's aggressiveness at the plate via sliders? Wonder which sliders he was referring to?

[MastorofPuppetz]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

Oh grief, here we go with this defense.

Comments like this are why people bring up The Show, MVP and High Heat.

"Realistic" is subject to interpretation. As it is in the demo, it's nowhere close IMO. Of course, they'll make it better next year and then you'll gush over it then as well.

Take some ritalin, it was not a defense, it was a general comment. relax.

They take plenty of k's for me, and i get plenty of K's looking and on check swings. MVP, The show are not any better in this regard, please. it is comments liek this wehy people think forums are were people with mental issues reside.

[MastorofPuppetz]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I struck out Pena` and Kazmir` looking, and I got Upton on a check swing called strike.

Yep, it ain't hard, but wait the show has one button pitching et people whine MLB 2k9's is to easy, lol.