AI Will Take Strikes

[kGinGreen]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

Oh, yes it is.

http://www.pastapadre.com/6533/mlb-2...mparison-video

So what you are saying is you are a troll? What does that video prove on this topic? that the guy in the video cant pitch and the show does the same exact thigns?

[JonahFalcon]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

(shrug) So, Pasta Padre can't pitch. I can't pitch. Other people can't pitch. I can't speak for most, but considering Pasta Padre's site is devoted to sports titles and I've been playing sports sims since 1983, I think we're not clueless on how sports games work.

[MacDaddy]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I think its too early to venture a guess on any type of comment that requires you to have a significant sample size to call.

AI will take strikes? What'd they do that in a :30 video of a demo?

AI will swing at everything in the zone? Oh really, i think i want more than 10 or 15 batters swinging before i call that.

[kGinGreen]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

(shrug) So, Pasta Padre can't pitch. I can't pitch. Other people can't pitch. I can't speak for most, but considering Pasta Padre's site is devoted to sports titles and I've been playing sports sims since 1983, I think we're not clueless on how sports games work.

did you see how he was pitching? I don't care who he is. he was throwing the ball down the middle of the plate with half power. watch the video because htat's what he was doing.

[Lepermessiah]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I am amazed at some of the posts here, if you cannot get the Ai to take strikes you are not pitching correctly. Do you throw first pitch balls sometimes? If you throw strikes everytime the first pitch, they will swing most of the time. Do you throw different pitches and not just fastballs the first pitch and different locations? Using inside edge, mixing it up and paying attention to what you throw, it is EASY to get the CPU the take strikes, just finished another demo game, struck out 3 in 3 innings, 2 looking, I also got them to take first pitch strikes 3 times, and several other times mid at bat. Chase also mentions in his early impressions CPU is taking strikes and getting K's looking.

You have to earn it, it is not automatic and easy like some other game. Pitch properly, it works excellent. Inside edge actually works very well, if you throw pitches a hitter always swings at in a certain location, what do you expect? Inside edge is a very useful scouting tool.

I just played another inning, second batter, fastball first pitch out and over the plate, you guessed it, he took it. The next pitch? Backdoor slider surprised him, you guessed it, he took it. I am starting there is a large group of Sony spies making stuff up, because half the stuff posted here just makes no sense. <!-- / message -->

[baa7]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I am starting there is a large group of Sony spies making stuff up

That's considered trolling. You're new here. If you continue to post nonsense like that, you will be reported. You might want to tone it down.

[kGinGreen]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I am amazed at some of the posts here, if you cannot get the Ai to take strikes you are not pitching correctly. Do you throw first pitch balls sometimes? If you throw strikes everytime the first pitch, they will swing most of the time. Do you throw different pitches and not just fastballs the first pitch and different locations? Using inside edge, mixing it up and paying attention to what you throw, it is EASY to get the CPU the take strikes, just finished another demo game, struck out 3 in 3 innings, 2 looking, I also got them to take first pitch strikes 3 times, and several other times mid at bat. Chase also mentions in his early impressions CPU is taking strikes and getting K's looking.

You have to earn it, it is not automatic and easy like some other game. Pitch properly, it works excellent. Inside edge actually works very well, if you throw pitches a hitter always swings at in a certain location, what do you expect? Inside edge is a very useful scouting tool.

I just played another inning, second batter, fastball first pitch out and over the plate, you guessed it, he took it. The next pitch? Backdoor slider surprised him, you guessed it, he took it. I am starting there is a large group of Sony spies making stuff up, because half the stuff posted here just makes no sense. <!-- / message -->

The only point he has is that there aren't enough of them. This is stuff that has existed in baseball games since day one though.... The show has the same problems. it's magnified here because the demo is on pro mode. it has everything to do with how you pitch though and there are ways to make it more realistic. No it's not perfect, but it's in every baseball game ever made. people say the show doesnt have this issue because the meter moves really fast and its harder to pinpoint your location so you throw more balls, but the thing is once you master that system its just as easy to throw a strike every pitch. The pitches are faster in the show adn so is the bat speed which leads to more of a challenge, but its all the same once you master it. I agree the show looks better and hte ai is better in spots. It's great that jonah has been playing since 83 but there also are people who have been paying games since 1980 like me and I know these things. I'm also pretyt good at these games in my humble opinion and no these games arent my life and i dont nitpick every freakin thing hypocritally like jonah is doing because he likes the show better. The Show is a fantastic game and pasta has a nice website but neither can't be wrong.

[dblake15]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I will say what I said in the 2K forums.

I love this game, but the swinging at everything in the zone is annoying. I have been hitting the corners, and using IE and still swinging.

If this is not a problem for the people that say they can "pitch" then what is your pitch count after 3 innings??

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

So basically what you're saying is you want a slider (or hitting rating) that shows plate discipline in certain ball-strike count situations?

No, what I am saying is, if you do pitcher and batter match-ups correctly. And have the AI tuned correctly, you wouldnt need to rely on a slider.

Sorry to say it, but The Show handles batter/pitcher match-ups masterfully. And this is the level I would like 2K to reach. Not have every player seem to have the same stamping. The Show has some pretty damn real player tendencies at the plate, on a player by player basis.

And not see 2K us this IE which proves to be flawed every year as a crutch.

I've noticed most of your posts being very critical of this game, but come on now, this is utterly absurd. Not even your Bible (the other game) has ratings for each batter for certain pitch counts.

Now see, you could have left the first part as is, but no... you had to get all childish and act a fool. If you want to engage is proper dialogue and discourse, I am all for it. But to act like a typical 2K brat policing people, it is just not needed.

So much double standards with a select few here. All else fails, try and find agenda in someone you disagree with. I never bash anyone, call anyone out, or get personal on The Show forums with the detractors there. Would like the same respect, but that is give and take with the select few here.

[kGinGreen]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

I just pitched an inning with 17 pitches, 6 balls, 11 strikes, 5 swinging, 3 called. 3 hits. What i do is try to really paint the corners and feel my way through the at bat. I'm not talking just painting the corners. i try to nip them. which leads to more balls being thrown because im really gambling but i also see more strike calls this way. i also max out the meter and really try to pinpoint location. It's not perfect and i still see inning's that arent great but i do see a good amount of strike calls. I max out the meter and try to throw perfect pitches.... on higher difficulties it should be better because it wont be so easy to nip the corners.

[kGinGreen]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

Just pitched another inning. 6 balls, 11 strikes, 2 looking. 17 pitches. One full count. I'm not intentionally throwing balls either. I'm just trying to nip the corners.

I dont see this all the time but i figure on higher difficulties its going to be more frequent that i see these kind of innings. add to that the throw strike slider for the cpu and it should lead to decent pitch counts. no its not perfect and wont be but it should be pretty good.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

What i do is try to really paint the corners and feel my way through the at bat. I'm not talking just painting the corners. i try to nip them.

Obviously this is the key to successful pitching at higher levels. To be successful you have to live on the edges of the plate. If you start continuously throwing pitches over the heart of the plate you will eventually be punished.

However, hitters take pitches all of the time that are over the middle, especially early in the count and when they are ahead in the count and especially off speed stuff. Hitters try and wait for hittable strikes, not just strikes. Often, but not always, the ideal pitches are fastballs.

Hitters typically don't go to the plate looking for a 0-0 slider on the corner as their pitch to drive. Most hitters want a fastball and will wait until they get one or get two strikes on them.

Also, some hitters are just not first ball swingers or don't swing until they get a strike-typically your leadoff hitter is up there to look at a few pitches and give everyone in the dugout a chance to look at a few pitches.

It's not that they don't take some strikes, it's that they don't take them in a realistic manner. If a pitcher throws a first pitch strike (mixing up his pitches) to nine straight batters, maybe 2, 3 or 4 swing at the pitch...not 7 or 8.

It would be nice if they could capture some different hitter personalities (even if not player specific) and apply them as close as possible to the like players. Very patient to very aggressive with about several types in between.

[kGinGreen]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

2 more innings

4 ball, 8 strikes, 0 called
0 balls, 8 strikes 3 called

So to summarize, 4 innings pitched, 54 pitches, 16 balls, 38 strikes, 8 called. 5 hits 1 run for the cpu. Not perfect but i can live with that.

I agree with you that they don't take them in a realistic manner. Although some batters do which is weird. Pena for some reason i throw him a 1st pitch strike thats over the plate and he takes it sometimes. I seem to get him on called strikes quite a bit.

[dblake15]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

thanks Kgin. I am really liking the inside edge and trying to use it but to no avail. Maybe I just really stink at pitching. I do really like that game though. Everything else has been fun, even the pitching is still fun.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: AI Will Take Strikes

Posted this in the Pasta Padre thread as well...just displays what actuall hitter tendancies are like:

From this website about the Brewers hitters last year:

http://www.brewcrewball.com/2009/1/27/737752/first-pitch-fastballs-to-b

I put this data into a spreadsheet and did some manual calculations. Here are the overall team results for the season:

At Bats: 5,726
First Pitch Fastballs: 3,731 (65%)
First Pitch Fastballs for Strikes 1,839 (49% of First pitch fastballs and 32% of total first pitches)
First pitch fastball strikes swung at: 621 (34%)

So basically for every 100 AB's, you will see a first pitch fastball for a strike about 32 times of which 1/3 of which will be swung at (10-11). So basically for every 100 first pitch fastball strikes throw, 33 are swung at...again all for the Brewers.

Numbers are lower than I thought, but it shows that even on first pitch fastballs for strikes the computer should only be expected to swing about 1/3 of the time.