Wow... how about Xavier Nady!

[CMH]

Re: Wow... how about Xavier Nady!

Nady has never been one to get on base via the walk. If he ever reaches his potential he'll be more than just a "role player". He has not been given a full season as a starter, he's always getting benched when he slumps and never has a full opportunity to get out of it.

It's probably because every manager that's had him realizes he's not a good player. He's average.

His numbers and career prove it. I find it hilarious that people are trying to tell me that this guy is good when he's never been.

[mjb2124]

Re: Wow... how about Xavier Nady!

His numbers and career prove it. I find it hilarious that people are trying to tell me that this guy is good when he's never been.

The same could've been said about both Brian Giles and Jason Bay before they got full time opportunities with the Pirates. They were both role players and not much else.

I'm not saying Nady will follow in their footsteps as I haven't seen enough of him, but the sample size with which you're judging him really isn't large enough. He's never even had a 400 AB season during his career.

[CMH]

Re: Wow... how about Xavier Nady!

The same could've been said about both Brian Giles and Jason Bay before they got full time opportunities with the Pirates. They were both role players and not much else.

I'm not saying Nady will follow in their footsteps as I haven't seen enough of him, but the sample size with which you're judging him really isn't large enough. He's never even had a 400 AB season during his career.

? Jason Bay got his chance in his rookie season and he hit 26 homeruns with 82 RBI. He batted .282 with an OBP of .358. His OPS of .908 as a rookie is phenomenal. The guy was never a role player or utility player. He was a star the minute he walked into a ballpark.

Brian Giles batted .355 with a 1.046 OPS his rookie season in Cleveland. The next year he hit more homeruns than Nady has ever dreamed of with 17. The year after 16. Those numbers in his second and third season in the majors. He then smoked 39 homeruns in his fourth season in the majors.

I won't even compare Nady to Bay because that's absolutely ludicrous. Anyone who even wants to compare the two should read a book about baseball immediately. So lets compare him to Giles because I'll consider being ridiculous with you guys for a few more posts.

Nady got his shot his rookie season and hit a wonderful 9 homeruns while posting a blistering .712 OPS. He played 124 games in his third season in the majors (more games than Giles ever saw that early in his careeer) and hit 13 homeruns with a .760 OPS. I'm still failing to see how his career compares to Giles. Giles hit more homeruns and posted a better OPS (not to mention several other numbers in less games).

Nady is now in his fourth season in the majors and his production is still miniscule in comparison to Giles second season in the majors. Don't talk about never playing a full season either. Nady now has three seasons of playing a solid number of games and not until now has he put up an OPS over .8 or hit over 15 homeruns. Those numbers were dwarfed by Giles and Bay in their rookie seasons!

You can believe what you want, I guess, but Nady is not Bay or Giles. Nowhere close to Giles, really (again Bay's name should never be in the same setence as Nady). Nady has had enough time to prove his worth. He hasn't taken advantage of it - probably because he isn't very good.

To finish this post off...keep in mind I'm not saying I wouldn't want Nady on my team. The guy is an average player - that's better than most players in the league. But, for his position and age he's not worth my time and shouldn't be worth the Pirates time either. Perhaps the Pirates investing their time in him is one of the reasons why they continue to remain in basement limbo in baseball.

[mjb2124]

Re: Wow... how about Xavier Nady!

? Jason Bay got his chance in his rookie season and he hit 26 homeruns with 82 RBI. He batted .282 with an OBP of .358. His OPS of .908 as a rookie is phenomenal. The guy was never a role player or utility player. He was a star the minute he walked into a ballpark.

Brian Giles batted .355 with a 1.046 OPS his rookie season in Cleveland. The next year he hit more homeruns than Nady has ever dreamed of with 17. The year after 16. Those numbers in his second and third season in the majors. He then smoked 39 homeruns in his fourth season in the majors.

I won't even compare Nady to Bay because that's absolutely ludicrous. Anyone who even wants to compare the two should read a book about baseball immediately. So lets compare him to Giles because I'll consider being ridiculous with you guys for a few more posts.

Nady got his shot his rookie season and hit a wonderful 9 homeruns while posting a blistering .712 OPS. He played 124 games in his third season in the majors (more games than Giles ever saw that early in his careeer) and hit 13 homeruns with a .760 OPS. I'm still failing to see how his career compares to Giles. Giles hit more homeruns and posted a better OPS (not to mention several other numbers in less games).

Nady is now in his fourth season in the majors and his production is still miniscule in comparison to Giles second season in the majors. Don't talk about never playing a full season either. Nady now has three seasons of playing a solid number of games and not until now has he put up an OPS over .8 or hit over 15 homeruns. Those numbers were dwarfed by Giles and Bay in their rookie seasons!

You can believe what you want, I guess, but Nady is not Bay or Giles. Nowhere close to Giles, really (again Bay's name should never be in the same setence as Nady). Nady has had enough time to prove his worth. He hasn't taken advantage of it - probably because he isn't very good.

To finish this post off...keep in mind I'm not saying I wouldn't want Nady on my team. The guy is an average player - that's better than most players in the league. But, for his position and age he's not worth my time and shouldn't be worth the Pirates time either. Perhaps the Pirates investing their time in him is one of the reasons why they continue to remain in basement limbo in baseball.

Calm down killer.

You missed the point entirely. Bay didn't do much UNTIL his rookie season (ie: throughout his minor league career he never projected to be a 30 HR guy at the MLB level). In fact, when the Pirates traded Brian Giles to SD, they asked for Xavier Nady and SD said "No, but we'll give you Bay".

17 isn't more HR's than Nady will ever dream of. Let's be a little realistic here as Nady's hit 15 between NYM and the Pirates this year. When Giles hit 39 HR's, it was the first time he was given an EVERY DAY chance to play. Before that he was the 4th outfielder in CL and did quite well given those circumstances. When he hit 39 HR's he had 521 AB's (compared to 371 which is the most Nady's had any single season).

Nady's "shot" his rookie season was 371 AB's. Not a good sample size as I mentioned earlier. He's never had a season where he played everyday to prove his worth. Give the guy 500 AB's and let's see what he can do.

You're wrong about Nady having played more games than Giles early in both of their careers. Nady played in 145 games his first 3 seasons in MLB. Giles played in 187 his first 3 seasons in MLB. I'm not sure why we're even discussing games played as it's a meaningless number. Any baseball fan knows this. AB's is better for this discussion. Nady 449 AB's his first 3 years. Giles 509 AB's. After that the margin widens with Giles gaining more AB's per year as he became a starter.

As far as the Pirates remaining in the basement limbo, if you think Nady's the problem, you don't know the economics of baseball nor much about the Pirates. All I'm saying is that maybe one should judge a player on a consistent sample size. IMO Nady hasn't had that yet.

Then again, Nady could turn into the next Craig Wilson and the more the guy plays, the more he's exposed. But you'll learn all about that now that he's a Yankee. Sing his old Pirate song with me "Offspeed pitch down and away makes Craig Wilson look bad everyday!!".

[CMH]

Re: Wow... how about Xavier Nady!

Then again, Nady could turn into the next Craig Wilson and the more the guy plays, the more he's exposed. But you'll learn all about that now that he's a Yankee. Sing his old Pirate song with me "Offspeed pitch down and away makes Craig Wilson look bad everyday!!".

That's exactly how I see Nady. Given most of my evaluation of the player is on my own assumptions. I'm not just taking his stats, but also what I see when he steps up to the plate. To me, he looks overmatched most of the time. Is he getting better? Yea. Like I said, he's average. He may become a good player one day, but he's losing time to show it.

As for Craig Wilson...I don't need to see him hit in pinstripes to know that he has holes. The guy falls away on every swing. For it to have taken this long for ML pitches to realize that a breaking ball low and away will have this guy playing in the minors in no time is remarkable to me. But, what can anyone say, really. Wilson has already lost playing time in NY. The lack of playing time will increase more and more as Torre continues to see why this guy is a pitcher's dream.

edit:
"As far as the Pirates remaining in the basement limbo, if you think Nady's the problem, you don't know the economics of baseball nor much about the Pirates."

Don't think I ignored that statement. I truly understand where you are coming from with this but I wanted to avoid commenting on it because this is the Xavier Nady thread.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Wow... how about Xavier Nady!

It's probably because every manager that's had him realizes he's not a good player. He's average.

His numbers and career prove it. I find it hilarious that people are trying to tell me that this guy is good when he's never been.

Point out where I said he was good in that post.

Nady was supposed to get his chance last year after Nevin was traded, struggled in a handful of at-bats and Bochy went back to his veteran lovefest. You can't tell me Nady isn't good because he's NEVER been given a full season.

That's difference between him and Bay.

Bay was traded to the Pirates and the Pirates already had room for him to fill and would they really have a choice to play him or another guy? Yeah, like they would've not played him if he wasn't a key piece in the trade. If he remained a Padre he too would suffer the Nady/Ben Johnson syndrome.

If Nady had not gotten injured in May, he'd very well still be a Met if not a starter.

Realize this I'm talking about that he can be good. But you're already assuming that I'm saying he's good. Again there's a big difference, but I wouldn't expect you to see that.

[CMH]

Re: Wow... how about Xavier Nady!

Realize this I'm talking about that he can be good. But you're already assuming that I'm saying he's good. Again there's a big difference, but I wouldn't expect you to see that.

I realize that.

I did say "you guys" several times in my post. I wanted to stress that I was responding to the entire thread rather than one particular person.

I do agree that he could be good one day. Maybe he does need the time to prove it. I still feel he's gotten that chance, but people blossom late all the time so we'll see. For the Pirates sake, they better hope he becomes something.