most overrated player

[Stu]

Re: most overrated player

Yah I don't really see Jeter as being overrated anymore. His defense used to be overrated and people made way too much about his "intangibles", but you rarely hear any of that garbage these days.

There's nothing overrated about his hitting. The guy can flat out swing the bat.

[ehh]

Re: most overrated player

Think about it, if you had your pick who would it be? The Babe or Barry?

I don't think anyone can answer that question because no one on this board saw The Babe play. Plus, pitching back then was an entirely different animal.

[crques]

Re: most overrated player

Barry Zito & J.D. Drew

[GeePee20]

Re: most overrated player

people made way too much about his "intangibles", but you rarely hear any of that garbage these days.
.

You don't associate with enough Yankee fans then, I still hear that crap around Yankee fans

[GeePee20]

Re: most overrated player

I'll be honest, I don't like Bonds. I'm not going to single him out but home runs in general have become much easier for hitters compared to the days of Babe Ruth. Strike zones have gotten smaller, fences have been moved in, and the ball used now is easier to hit a home run off of. Think about it, if you had your pick who would it be? The Babe or Barry?

You don't know the balls are easier to hit out now.

While some parks may be easier to hit home runs, have you been to AT&T? That wind over there in right field is killer. That wind knocks down so many potential home runs.

You can also argue that Babe Ruth didn't have to face the same kind of pitchers. They didn't have lefty specialists and closers back then. One guy would often pitch the entire game. He must've been exhausted by the 8th and 9th.

Not to mention Babe played in an all white league which severely limits the amount of talent in the league.

[ehh]

Re: most overrated player

You don't associate with enough Yankee fans then, I still hear that crap around Yankee fans

He lives in Boston and you live in Cali, I'm pretty sure he associates w. more Yankee fans than you.

[snepp]

Re: most overrated player

You can also argue that Babe Ruth didn't have to face the same kind of pitchers. They didn't have lefty specialists and closers back then. One guy would often pitch the entire game. He must've been exhausted by the 8th and 9th.

Not to mention Babe played in an all white league which severely limits the amount of talent in the league.

Good points, but if you're going to hold that against Ruth, then you have to hold expansion and the watered down pitching staffs against Bonds. You also need to hold steroids against him (if you believe he used them that is).

[GeePee20]

Re: most overrated player

He lives in Boston and you live in Cali, I'm pretty sure he associates w. more Yankee fans than you.

I spend 9 months of the year in New Jersey...believe me I associate with more Yank fans.

[GeePee20]

Re: most overrated player

Good points, but if you're going to hold that against Ruth, then you have to hold expansion and the watered down pitching staffs against Bonds. You also need to hold steroids against him (if you believe he used them that is).

There is so much more talent now to fill out the expansion. That's why expansion was allowed to happen. As the number of people playing baseball grows, there needs to be more space for all these additional players. So many more people play today. There are little leagues in every town and city in America now. So many more people internationally are now playing it also. I don't believe watered down pitching staffs are much of an issue considering how many more people play baseball now.

Add in all the technology to improve arm strength and endurance, and these pitching staffs are a lot better. Scouting is also improved. Pitchers now know exactly where to pitch hitters and where their weaknesses. While hitters do know pitchers' weaknesses too now, pitchers still have the advantage because they can still aim for the spots where a hitter is weak.

And I do hold steroids against him, but I also hold steroids against the pitchers. People forget that pitchers can benefit from steroids too. Did Ruth have to face down any roided up pitchers?

[snepp]

Re: most overrated player

There is so much more talent now to fill out the expansion. That's why expansion was allowed to happen.

Expansion happened for one reason, $$$.

There is no where near enough viable pitching talent available to fill every roster.

[GeePee20]

Re: most overrated player

I know it happened for money, but it made baseball sense as well because there is more talent coming in every year. As population goes up and the number of people that play baseball goes up, the number of MLB quality players goes up.

Pitching is difficult. Of course everyone in the league is not going to have a 2.00 ERA. There is a lot of good pitching when you think about. Every team has their stinkers but name a sport from any time period that has ever had every team loaded with very good players. I am sure there were an equal percentage of crappy pitchers back in Ruth's day than today.

I realize there are slots to fill now with expansion, but the talent pool is massive now. America's population has grown massively. Participation in sports has grown massively in this country. Blacks, Latinoes and Asians are now allowed to play. And there are all the international players. There is more than enough baseball talent. People have this image of the past just being loaded with excellent players but that's because we don't hear about the guys who lost games for their teams in the 1920s. We hear about all the great stars. Nowadays we all watch Sportscenter or our local teams and see our closer blow another game so we assume the talent sucks today.

Since 1920, our country's population has grown by nearly 3 times from a little over 100 million to a little over 300 million. That means that in America alone, logic would say we have 3 times as many talented baseball players in our country today as we did in 1920. The league however has only grown by less than 50%. There were 16 teams in 1920, now we have 30. That means that even if we only had white Americans in our big leagues today, there would be more than enough talent to supply the league. Add in the fact that now we have non-whites playing ball as well as international players from the Caribbean and Asia, the talent pool is immensely bigger than in Ruth's era. If anything, the talent was watered down in Ruth's era.

[Brandon13]

Re: most overrated player

And I do hold steroids against him, but I also hold steroids against the pitchers. People forget that pitchers can benefit from steroids too. Did Ruth have to face down any roided up pitchers?

I saw in an article the other day that more pitchers have tested positive for banned substances than position players.

[GeePee20]

Re: most overrated player

I saw in an article the other day that more pitchers have tested positive for banned substances than position players.

Exactly, people always forget about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_suspended_for_steroids

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/050404steroids.html

The first link is more recent and has more pitchers

The second link shows an older list of players from 2005 where 17 out of 38 are pitchers.

Fact is, pitchers abuse steroids just as often as hitters.

People love to compare the way Bonds looks now to his younger days. Well look at Clemens too:

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: most overrated player

Exactly, people always forget about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_suspended_for_steroids

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/050404steroids.html

The first link is more recent and has more pitchers

The second link shows an older list of players from 2005 where 17 out of 38 are pitchers.

Fact is, pitchers abuse steroids just as often as hitters.

People love to compare the way Bonds looks now to his younger days. Well look at Clemens too:

yeah, he looks fatter....

[GeePee20]

Re: most overrated player

Look at his arms and you could say Barry looks fatter too.