Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

[bergie56]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I could see him becoming a better version of your past RF, Jacque Jones, so I don't understand the bitching? The Twins are full of players like Melky Cabrera, so what's there to get up in arms about? I find that ironic and hilarious at the same time. Now if you was a Yankees fan, maybe then you would have a point. 'Cause we all know the Twins are stacked with stars. God forbid if Melky Cabrera joins the team.

What is with your infatuation with pointing out how much you think the Twins suck? I am not sure why you have it, but I find it to be quite humorous. While Jacque Jones was not a great player by any means, his first 5 years with the Twins, he averaged batting .290 with 17 hr's and 65 RBI's. Also, Snepp can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he did that as a leadoff hitter. I am also willing to doubt that Cabrera's best year will match Jacque Jones' best year. It doesn't mean much, but at best I see them as being the same player. Jacque played RF pretty well too. I have no idea how Melky is defensively, so I can't make a comparison.

[DrJones]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I could see him becoming a better version of your past RF, Jacque Jones, so I don't understand the bitching?

I'm no Twins fan, but I can see their point.

Slugging percentage for Jacque Jones' first 2 full MLB seasons: .460, .463
Slugging percentage for Melky Cabrera's first 2 full MLB seasons: .391, .391

[Sandman42]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

What is with your infatuation with pointing out how much you think the Twins suck? I am not sure why you have it, but I find it to be quite humorous. While Jacque Jones was not a great player by any means, his first 5 years with the Twins, he averaged batting .290 with 17 hr's and 65 RBI's. Also, Snepp can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he did that as a leadoff hitter. I am also willing to doubt that Cabrera's best year will match Jacque Jones' best year. It doesn't mean much, but at best I see them as being the same player. Jacque played RF pretty well too. I have no idea how Melky is defensively, so I can't make a comparison.

Melky's alright defensively; he has a strong arm, but bellow average range. I can't count the number of times that a ball would drop in front of Melky that Damon would have made it too. I thinks it's a combination of him not getting a good read on the ball off the bat and the fact that he plays so deep in CF.

[snepp]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I'm no Twins fan, but I can see their point.

Slugging percentage for Jacque Jones' first 2 full MLB seasons: .460, .463
Slugging percentage for Melky Cabrera's first 2 full MLB seasons: .391, .391

I know I'm glutton for punishment, but I can't resist...

Slugging percentage for Alex Ochoa's first 2 full season's worth of AB's: .390, .410



Yes it's a joke, don't get your panties in a bunch.

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

The Red Sox are now going after Bedard. Sox and the Blue Jays have the top offer so far but the Orioles don't want to trade him within the divison.

Maybe the Sox are trying to make the Twins make a faster decision?

[CMH]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Melky's alright defensively; he has a strong arm, but bellow average range. I can't count the number of times that a ball would drop in front of Melky that Damon would have made it too. I thinks it's a combination of him not getting a good read on the ball off the bat and the fact that he plays so deep in CF.

Melky has a poor first step. He's really almost the epitome of Jim Edmonds and his overrated defense at centerfield (though, I'm not trying to get carried away here. Edmonds is still a very good defensive outfielder. But he's not as great as say Andruw Jones).

Both guys have slow first steps and as a result they make plays that a great outfielder would make look routine. Obviously, Edmonds is a good defensive outfielder while Cabrera is average, probably below average.

Cabrera always seems to make last second catches at the wall or to his left. That's not because he covers a lot of ground. It's because he doesn't cover ground and he has to make a fantastic play to make the play.

Another reason why he picks up so many assists is because he isn't great coming in to the ball. Like you said, balls drop in front. But, guys coming off from 2nd are gonna run on that ball. Melky unloads, fires, and guns runners at the plate. He's got a great arm but if he covered more ground he'd have less assists. It's a funny thing when it comes to defense.

[Mr.Burns]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

What is with your infatuation with pointing out how much you think the Twins suck? I am not sure why you have it, but I find it to be quite humorous. While Jacque Jones was not a great player by any means, his first 5 years with the Twins, he averaged batting .290 with 17 hr's and 65 RBI's. Also, Snepp can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he did that as a leadoff hitter. I am also willing to doubt that Cabrera's best year will match Jacque Jones' best year. It doesn't mean much, but at best I see them as being the same player. Jacque played RF pretty well too. I have no idea how Melky is defensively, so I can't make a comparison.

More or less you could basically expect the same type of player. Except Melky won't be striking out near as much, and probably getting on base more often (Walks), basing it strictly on the stats. I think it's a good offer, yet the Twins fans, like you said, are infatuated with telling me how much Melky sucks, as opposed to looking on the offer as a whole.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

The offer as a whole... Hughes(*****potential), Melky(***), and a random (***potential) prospect. Man that is one hell of a deal for the best left-hander in the game!

Red Sox offer was: Lester(***1/2 with ****potential), Crisp(***), Masterson(****potential), Lowrie(****potential), and Kalish(***-****potential).

The Twins are NOT going to get even value for Santana. But that Sox offer is far more complete. A starting pitcher, who if he is able to gain his control will have a career very similar to Andy Pettite(SAME EXACT STUFF). A starting CF that is pretty much the same at the plate as Cabrera(.270-.280ish hitter), but is one of the best defensive CF in the game. Another SP prospect that has a VERY high ceiling. Jew Lowrie, an IF who could probably start the year in the bigs for Minni and put up very respectable numbers. And then Kalish, who is looking to be a very good OF prospect.

[Porschebenz2001]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I just don't see him as the next Roger Clemens as some people proclaim, I think overrated fits because he has good stuff to be a #1 in the rotation, not in the league...



Alot of hate for Gammons, personally think he is one of the few guys on ESPN who aren't full of crap.

Yeah that is decent, next year he won't do that, once the league sees you 2nd time around your numbers change, Papelbon had that happen but he's great enough of a pitcher and adjusted very well.

Yeah and some people Ryan Leaf was suppose to be better then Peyton Manning. Not saying this will happen to Hughes. I just think Hughes has the advantage because he was more sought out after in High School and didn't need to go to college to get a good draft position. I think that gave Hughes the advantage. I think in terms of stuff these guys are equal.

The real advantage we have over Yankees deal was throwing in IF Jed Lowrie.

To compare anyone to Clemens is unfair, especially a 21 year old kid. I might be wrong but didn't Kerry Wood get some Clemens comparisons when he first came up? It's like nbadraft.net comparing Deshawn Stevenson to MJ. Scouts make mistakes too. We just don't know yet.

As for Gammons, I don't mind him. He's a Red Sox homer, so what. Dude has a lot to cheer about recently, I don't blame him. He is about as good as it gets on ESPN anyway.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

The Red Sox are now going after Bedard. Sox and the Blue Jays have the top offer so far but the Orioles don't want to trade him within the divison.

Maybe the Sox are trying to make the Twins make a faster decision?

I don't understand why they wouldn't trade him within the division. It's not like Baltimore is going to be competing with any of Boston, New York, or even Toronto any time soon. I think Tampa's future looks brighter too. Are they worried that Bedard is still going to be a very good pitcher more than 5 years from now?

Edit - Also, the continued Melky love is laughable. The more I look at this guy the more I see a middling journeyman utility guy years from now.

[djep]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I don't understand why they wouldn't trade him within the division.

That's cause you're a Boston fan looking through all things with red colored glasses.

Bedard is relatively young, left-handed and should be dominating for close to the next decade. Why the hell would Baltimore want to deal with that? Believe it or not, other teams want to win too. Not everyone is here just to play cannon fodder for the Yanks-Red Sox rivalry.

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Latest from Buster Olney.

"The Twins wanted more from the Yankees, and they continue to talk to the Mets. But they seemed to have made the most progress with the Red Sox, talking and structuring different proposals around Jon Lester, and in separate proposals, around Jacoby Ellsbury. And some talent evaluators with knowledge of the conversations say, with confidence, that they expect the Twins and Boston to make a deal.

"It'll get worked out," said one evaluator. "It might not be tomorrow, but sometime, it's going to get worked out. It's close enough, and there are enough ways to bridge the gap between what the Red Sox have offered and what the Twins want to make it happen."

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

That's cause you're a Boston fan looking through all things with red colored glasses.

Bedard is relatively young, left-handed and should be dominating for close to the next decade. Why the hell would Baltimore want to deal with that? Believe it or not, other teams want to win too. Not everyone is here just to play cannon fodder for the Yanks-Red Sox rivalry.

He's not that young, he's 28. That's not a bad thing but let's not pretend a guy with ONE very good season under his belt is going to be equally as dominating as his one very good season a decade from now. Also, he's never thrown 200 innings, just something to keep in mind.

My point stands, if the Orioles were smart they would deal him now while he's at peak value (miraculously since he finished the season hurt). The O's aren't going to be competing for the division next year and most likely not the year after either. This guy will probably blow his arm out by then anyway - they should just shovel him off for whoever offers the most talent regardless of where the team is. I don't want the guy either so don't think I'm looking at him and licking my lips, I think he's significantly overrated at the moment.

[stewaat]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Since when is 28 not young in baseball? Especially for a pitcher?

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Since when is 28 not young in baseball? Especially for a pitcher?

Young is relative. Career curve-wise, he's at his peak now. I think you could get most people to agree that a player's prime is generally from 26-30. He'll be 29 next year. Awesome players tend to last longer but they're still slipping a little bit. He's not awesome though, he's had one awesome season, and he has an injury history too.