A simple question. If guys like Bonds, Clemens and McGwire are eventually voted into the HOF, do you think that improves Pete Rose's case for induction? After all, they're all guilty of crimes against the integrity of the game. But in my opinion, it's going to look pretty ridiculous if Rose's on-field accomplishments aren't recognized because of an off-the-field transgression while players like Bonds and Clemens are voted into the HOF because of performance-enhanced on-field performances.
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Helen: Everyone's special, Dash.
Dash: [muttering] Which is another way of saying no one is. -
Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
If Bonds or Clemens gets in, Pete Rose better get in as well.
Bonds and Clemens used performance enhancing suppliments, Pete Rose bet on baseball. Which one doesn't deserve to be in? -
Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
I feel Rose should be in. BUT if you look at it from a technical standpoint, Bonds and Clemens supposedly taken steriods before they were banned. So this will not count against them in the record books. The only thing that stains them is their reputation. Rose however did something that was illegal from the start. Which in term, bans him from the game.
In reality, Clemens and Bonds gets in on their first year of eligibility. Rose will not be in anytime soon. I think all 3 should be in.I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm XComment
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Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
Both acts were detrimental to the game in some way, and should be punished about equally. That being said, I've always thought Rose should be in the hall, but on his plaque note the controversy. Don't allow him to manage/coach again, but let him in the hall as a player because he obviously belongs.
I guess I should be consistent then and say the same about Bonds and Clemens (though there would have to be more hard evidence IMO to justify making the note otherwise it could be libel.) Personally I don't want either one in the Hall because they are cheaters, but I respect voters who vote them in if they have reason. I think their act was worse than Pete's (assuming he never bet against the Reds, which I doubt), but it was widespread across the game so it is hard to point at this guy and that guy but not someone else.
People who care about the game will know that the era has a big question mark around it and will think accordingly when visiting the Hall or looking at the list of guys in it. People will know that there is at least a question around pretty much anybody of the era, just like we today adjust stats from the deadball era to understand that hitting 200 HRs in your career then was very impressive.Comment
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Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
He should have been in before this, but I don't think this is going to change anything.Originally posted by Jay BilasComment
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"It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace
"You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob NeyerComment
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Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
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M.K.
Knight165All gave some. Some gave all. 343Comment
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Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
If Clemens and/or Bonds go in then Rose has to go in as well. In many ways what those two guys did was far worse then what Rose did. To Rose's credit his gambling didn't exactly affect what happened on the field and records etc etc the way Bonds and Clemens' acts did.Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club
"Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. ParkerComment
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Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
The only way I would vote for Bonds, Clemens, or anyone else who was on roids, was if Rose was finally eligible for induction also.Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists AssociationComment
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Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
In every MLB club house the early 1900's there have been big signs saying NO BETTING ALLOWED! Rose should never be allowed in the hall.ND Season Ticket Holder since '72.Comment
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Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
You're basically asking which is worse. Betting on the game is worse. As for entry to the Hall of Fame, neither should matter IMO. The guys who put up the numbers should be in. When you've got a HOF without the greatest pitcher of the last 50-60 years in it and have kept the all time hits leader out as well then I think it's kind of lacking. It could be viewed as a kind of a Hall of Fame death sentence.
It also kind of gives the guys who get kept out this weird sort of immortality. Would anyone be talking about Pete Rose anymore? Not really. If Clemens and Bonds don't get in they'll be talked about endlessly as well. It would be best to just induct them but baseball is silly like that.Comment
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Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
This is a touchy subject.
I have a solution. Get rid of the Hall of Fame. It's becoming a joke anyway."It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace
"You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob NeyerComment
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Re: Ok, NOW does Pete Rose get in?
Betting is worse because it calls into question whether or not the game is being played to be won or played for a gambling fix. If the legitimacy of whether or not you're watching two sides try to win versus an exhibition is seriously compromised then the game is dead. There's a reason baseball views gambling as the ultimate in-game crime.Comment
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