Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

[JBH3]

From the Phillies Insider Blog...

1-2 Punch


Late last month, Dayn Perry, an author and one of the talented baseball contributors on FOXSPORTS.COM, wrote a story about the top ten 1-2 pitching punches in the majors for 2008 in his crystal ball.
LHP Cole Hamels and RHP Brett Myers were listed as No. 8 in Perry’s story:
1. Brandon Webb and Dan Haren (Diamondbacks)
2. C. C. Sabathia and Fausto Carmona (Indians)
3. Johan Santana and Francisco Liriano (Twins)
4. Jake Peavy and Chris Young (Padres)
5. Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum (Giants)
6. Brad Penny and Chad Billingsley (Dodgers)
7. John Lakey and Kelvim Escobar (Angels)
8. Hamels and Myers
9. Scott Kazmir and James Shields (Rays)
10. John Smoltz and Tim Hudson (Braves)

Let's put it up to debate. Who do you think is the best 1-2 punch in the MLB?

[dkgojackets]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

Sabathia and Carmona by far.

Since when did Brett Myers become a top pitcher? Hamels is great, but you can't just pair him with any average pitcher and have a top 1-2 punch.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

Phillies: Cole Hamels and Brett Myers 1

[JBH3]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

Sabathia and Carmona by far.

Since when did Brett Myers become a top pitcher? Hamels is great, but you can't just pair him with any average pitcher and have a top 1-2 punch.

I have to be a homer and run w/ my Phillie boys...But for good reason.

I would venture to say that Brett Myers would've had a big year as a starter had it not been for the Phillies lack of bullpen arms and him moving to the pen. Plus he's a much better closer than Fausto was in his closing days.

But I do think that if Hamels can play a full season then he can be one of the best lefties in the game. Look at his numbers pitching at home in Coors Field's east coast cousin. His batting avg. and OPS against are better at home than on the road. You can make the case that he pitches in the NL, but hey his numbers are nice.

[JBH3]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

Since when did Brett Myers become a top pitcher?

I would say 2005 when he put up these numbers...

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left>SEASON</TD><TD align=left width="5%">TEAM</TD><TD width="5%">G</TD><TD width="5%">GS</TD><TD width="5%">CG</TD><TD width="5%">SHO</TD><TD width="5%">IP</TD><TD width="5%">H</TD><TD width="5%">R</TD><TD width="5%">ER</TD><TD width="5%">HR</TD><TD width="5%">BB</TD><TD width="5%">SO</TD><TD width="5%">W</TD><TD width="5%">L</TD><TD width="5%">SV</TD><TD width="5%">HLD</TD><TD width="5%">BLSV</TD><TD width="5%">ERA</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD align=left>2005</TD><TD align=left> Phi</TD><TD>34</TD><TD>34</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>215.1</TD><TD>193</TD><TD>94</TD><TD>89</TD><TD>31</TD><TD>68</TD><TD>208</TD><TD>13</TD><TD align=right>8</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>--</TD><TD>3.72</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[dkgojackets]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

Hamels had a really good season last year, not denying that. Probably seventh best or so in the NL.

Myers had an ERA of 4.33. Career best is just 3.72. Career 101 ERA+. Pretty much defines average. That isn't good reason.

Then you look at John Smoltz and Tim Hudson 10th? Hudson in his career has two seasons worse than Myers' best year. Smoltz hasn't had a year as bad as Myers' best in his last twelve seasons.

LOL at the Coors Field east argument. That didn't mean much to you when it inflated Rollins offense. Oh well, gotta pick and choose the convenient facts.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

I would say 2005 when he put up these numbers...

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left>SEASON</TD><TD align=left width="5%">TEAM</TD><TD width="5%">G</TD><TD width="5%">GS</TD><TD width="5%">CG</TD><TD width="5%">SHO</TD><TD width="5%">IP</TD><TD width="5%">H</TD><TD width="5%">R</TD><TD width="5%">ER</TD><TD width="5%">HR</TD><TD width="5%">BB</TD><TD width="5%">SO</TD><TD width="5%">W</TD><TD width="5%">L</TD><TD width="5%">SV</TD><TD width="5%">HLD</TD><TD width="5%">BLSV</TD><TD width="5%">ERA</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD align=left>2005</TD><TD align=left> Phi</TD><TD>34</TD><TD>34</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>215.1</TD><TD>193</TD><TD>94</TD><TD>89</TD><TD>31</TD><TD>68</TD><TD>208</TD><TD>13</TD><TD align=right>8</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>--</TD><TD>3.72</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

How many "top pitchers" would you say there are then? He's shown us two good seasons, three crappy ones before that, and an average one last year. There were like 30 something players last year that put up a better ERA than Myers did in the season you picked as the best in his career.

[Psyblast]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

Sabathia and Carmona, with Webb-Haren a close second.

[JBH3]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

Hamels had a really good season last year, not denying that. Probably seventh best or so in the NL.

Myers had an ERA of 4.33. Career best is just 3.72. Career 101 ERA+. Pretty much defines average. That isn't good reason.

Then you look at John Smoltz and Tim Hudson 10th? Hudson in his career has two seasons worse than Myers' best year. Smoltz hasn't had a year as bad as Myers' best in his last twelve seasons.

LOL at the Coors Field east argument. That didn't mean much to you when it inflated Rollins offense. Oh well, gotta pick and choose the convenient facts.

You like that don't you...The Coors Field quip. The poll is a forecast to who might be the best 1-2 punch in 2008 not who is the best 1-2 punch historically out of active pitchers. This could be the year that Smoltz shows his age who knows. Hudson is coming off his best yr in a Braves uni, but he could return to his 2006 numbers. Plus their run support could be suspect, and their bullpen definitely is.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

What does run support and bullpen have to do with the quality of starting pitchers?

But if by forecast you mean wild speculation based on what you hope will happen instead of actual performance, I see what you're saying. I'll take Gil Meche and Brian Bannister.

[JBH3]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

What does run support and bullpen have to do with the quality of starting pitchers?

But if by forecast you mean wild speculation based on what you hope will happen instead of actual performance, I see what you're saying. I'll take Gil Meche and Brian Bannister.

Well if your team can't score runs or hold a lead I would assume that it would affect your wins. I understand what you mean because regardless of Wins you would still be able to determine # of quality starts.

So I guess that I cannot assume that Cole Hamels can improve on his 2007 performance and Brett Myers cannot emerge as a premiere righty in the NL. I mean Myers will be pitching at the #2 spot, not the # 1 like in previous seasons so his numbers should improve since he will be mostly facing the oppositions # 2 starter. I guess I should've went with Peavy and Young since they were my second choice, and are ...last time I checked...NOT Phillies.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

Well if your team can't score runs or hold a lead I would assume that it would affect your wins.

Wins have nothing to do with pitching quality.

I mean Myers will be pitching at the #2 spot, not the # 1 like in previous seasons so his numbers should improve since he will be mostly facing the oppositions # 2 starter.

No, his numbers are based on the lineup he faces and how he pitches. Whether the other team is pitching '00 Pedro Martinez or starting Jorge Julio is irrelevant.

I guess it's possible Hamels becomes Cy Young and Myers dominates. It's also possible that the Pirates will beat the Orioles in the World Series.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

If Daisuke improves after adjusting to American baseball... We could be talking Beckett/Matsuzaka at the top of this discussion at the end of the year.

Let's face it, Beckett proved he is the best right-handed starter in the game in the playoffs after that year he had. If Daisuke can turn in a 3.6-3.8 era in the AL east with the Sox offense, that could be 40+ wins between Beckett and Matsuzaka.

[Stu]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

Beckett and Santana, hopefully.

[joshuar9476]

Re: Best 1-2 Punch in the MLB for 2008?

santana and liriano if the latter can regain his form prior to his injury.