Most promising young pitcher?

[spyder23]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

Lol at everyone on here. Typical though.

zitomulder,

Its called RESEARCH and READING. You should try it sometime. I know, I know, its tough in this day and age for kids to actually pull out a book and read. How did I make an a$$ of myself? You were the one on here spouting your "facts" about Pete Martin having the best five seasons ever. You were the one making the a$$ of themself.

I'm out of this discussion after this. I cant reason with 17 year olds, and the like, who think baseball started two decades ago.

No I was not alive in 1919, and I doubt any of you even read, so I'm 99% sure you wouldnt know what any actual BASEBALL people, who actually PLAYED against Johnson said about him, or what people who ACTUALLY saw him pitch said about Johnson.

Ty Cobb? The name might ring a bell to some of you .367 lifetime hitter in the "DEADBALL ERA"(since that is your great argument)...yeah go see what he said about Johnson. Kind of funny though that the top two lifetime hitters in average came from the deadball era, which someone on here implied by their response was a good reason to dismiss Johnson. And if you add Joe Jackson...that's three hitters. I think I will take the opinion of Ty freaking Cobb over a guy named ZITOMULDER or SPORTSDUDE. Lol give me a break.

Funny but I dont see any current major leaguers in the Top 10 hitters. Hmm...lots of deadball hitters though. Has anyone watched Ken Burns documentary, "BASEBALL"??? Yeah maybe you should turn off ESPN and catch up on the history of the game. Because its a lot of more than just me saying this about WJ.

So maybe YOU should do some research on WJ before making such claims about all these modern day pitchers. Or, hey, just go back to watching ESPN and check out their stellar insight on the game.


"you should actually do more than look at numbers to base all of your opinions on"

That made be the dumbest statement ever. WTF do you think baseball is judged on?????
755
56
.406
61
511

Do these numbers mean anything to you??? Baseball has been numbers driven since 1871. Ok, what should I look at then? Please tell me. because I'd love to know just wtf you are looking at.

And I never saw Koufax pitch. I wasnt even born until 1981.

[spyder23]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

Charro? What the hell is Charro.

And I'm sure you were alive in 1919 in the midst of the dead ball I might remind you and saw him pitch. Koufax I might give you some credit on as you might have been alive to see it. Pedro on the other hand has his stretch in the middle of the steroid era.

Good try though, but next time before you go off making an *** out of yourself you should actually do more than just look at numbers to base all of your opinions on.

And one more thing genius, 1919 was not "in the midst" of the deadball era. So please dont say "might I remind you" like I dont know. Please.

1919 was the LAST YEAR of the deadball era. 1920 was the first year they changed the ball and made it more livelier, thus ending the deadball era. Ruth hit 54 homers. More than every team but one. I can name the team without looking it up. I KNOW you cant. So dont try and insult my intelligence.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

For the record... What does deadball era have to do with batting averages? YOu could still hit the ball all over the place. It effected the power numbers, not the batting average. There are hitters today that back in that age would have put up better batting average numbers than Ty Cobb did, because Cobb faced a lot of pitchers that were inferior to a lot of the players today. NO black players, no Dominican players... Just generally less talent than today. That is not saying Cobb wouldn't do good today, as he would likely still hit .330 year in year out. But trying to compare eras is pretty fruitless.

[spyder23]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

For the record... What does deadball era have to do with batting averages? YOu could still hit the ball all over the place. It effected the power numbers, not the batting average. There are hitters today that back in that age would have put up better batting average numbers than Ty Cobb did, because Cobb faced a lot of pitchers that were inferior to a lot of the players today. NO black players, no Dominican players... Just generally less talent than today. That is not saying Cobb wouldn't do good today, as he would likely still hit .330 year in year out. But trying to compare eras is pretty fruitless.

If you could hit the ball all over the place, as you say, why then were league batting averages around .215-.230? It doesnt have anything to do with batting averages, I was just pointing out that the guy who said Johnson is irrelevant b/c he pitched in the deadball era is a ridiculous statement. Cobb was THAT much better than the league, plain and simple. If it was as easy as you say, then everyone would have been doing it. Same with Johnson. In the deadball era, when pitchers ruled the game, WJ stood head and shoulders ABOVE, same as Cobb. He, too, was THAT much better than the league. And that says something. Koufax pitched in a pitching dominated decade too, the 60s.

I agree though. Comapring eras is fruitless. My initial response was to the guy who just laid claim like he knew it all that Pedro had the best years in history. Thats all.


Just read this if you can. It explains perfectly about him. He played 21 seasons. TEN of them were with a team in the second division--that's 5th-8th place). He won 417 games. Pedro would have cried like usual if he was on a team that bad. For his CAREER, WJ's winning percentage was 100 points higher than that of his teams. Enough said.

http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016600.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...in_of_the.html

[sportsdude]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

And one more thing genius, 1919 was not "in the midst" of the deadball era. So please dont say "might I remind you" like I dont know. Please.

1919 was the LAST YEAR of the deadball era. 1920 was the first year they changed the ball and made it more livelier, thus ending the deadball era. Ruth hit 54 homers. More than every team but one. I can name the team without looking it up. I KNOW you cant. So dont try and insult my intelligence.

We're aware of when the deadball era happened. You said pick any season from Johnson from 1910-1919, and uh, that's pretty much smack dab in the middle of it unless you pick 1919.

[Chief Illinimac]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

Has anyone considered the fact that pitching would more than likely dominate hitting in the earlier years of a developing game? I doubt hitters back then have the same mentality present-day hitters have at the plate, and I'm pretty sure pitching has gotten a little bit more difficult, but I'm sure it's not so much different outside of more velocity.

[ZM Punk]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

Lol at everyone on here. Typical though.

zitomulder,

Its called RESEARCH and READING. You should try it sometime. I know, I know, its tough in this day and age for kids to actually pull out a book and read. How did I make an a$$ of myself? You were the one on here spouting your "facts" about Pete Martin having the best five seasons ever. You were the one making the a$$ of themself.

I'm out of this discussion after this. I cant reason with 17 year olds, and the like, who think baseball started two decades ago.

No I was not alive in 1919, and I doubt any of you even read, so I'm 99% sure you wouldnt know what any actual BASEBALL people, who actually PLAYED against Johnson said about him, or what people who ACTUALLY saw him pitch said about Johnson.

Ty Cobb? The name might ring a bell to some of you .367 lifetime hitter in the "DEADBALL ERA"(since that is your great argument)...yeah go see what he said about Johnson. Kind of funny though that the top two lifetime hitters in average came from the deadball era, which someone on here implied by their response was a good reason to dismiss Johnson. And if you add Joe Jackson...that's three hitters. I think I will take the opinion of Ty freaking Cobb over a guy named ZITOMULDER or SPORTSDUDE. Lol give me a break.

Funny but I dont see any current major leaguers in the Top 10 hitters. Hmm...lots of deadball hitters though. Has anyone watched Ken Burns documentary, "BASEBALL"??? Yeah maybe you should turn off ESPN and catch up on the history of the game. Because its a lot of more than just me saying this about WJ.

So maybe YOU should do some research on WJ before making such claims about all these modern day pitchers. Or, hey, just go back to watching ESPN and check out their stellar insight on the game.


"you should actually do more than look at numbers to base all of your opinions on"

That made be the dumbest statement ever. WTF do you think baseball is judged on?????
755
56
.406
61
511

Do these numbers mean anything to you??? Baseball has been numbers driven since 1871. Ok, what should I look at then? Please tell me. because I'd love to know just wtf you are looking at.

And I never saw Koufax pitch. I wasnt even born until 1981.

Dude Walter Johnson's whole career was in the heart of the dead ball era!!!

Anyway I'm too immature to be arguing with a great baseball historian like yourself. So I'm done.

[DuffysCliff]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

L
Its called RESEARCH and READING. You should try it sometime. I know, I know, its tough in this day and age for kids to actually pull out a book and read. How did I make an a$$ of myself? You were the one on here spouting your "facts" about Pete Martin having the best five seasons ever. You were the one making the a$$ of themself.

Here's a little research...
Pedro's ERA+ from 1997-2003 (his prime) is around 217. If you take just his best 5 years from that span, it's 233. Including a year (2000) with a 291 ERA+, the best year ever for a starting pitcher.
Sandy Koufax average ERA+ from 1962-66 (years you cited) is around 164
Walter Johnson's average ERA+ from 1910-1919 (period you cited) is around 191. The ERA+ average from his best 5 years is 224.

Yeah I think it's safe to say Pedro Martinez didn't have the best 5 single seasons ever, but in his prime years, he was the greatest pitcher of all time.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand. I think the most promising pitchers who will be in the majors this year are Buchholz, Hughes, Chamberlain. For those who won't see any time in the majors, I'll go with Clayton Kershaw and Rick Porcello.

[Seahawk76]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

Another homer pick for Felix. He's got 30 major league wins already at age 21 and is still learning his craft. Having Bedard as the M's #1 should help take some of the pressure off of him.

[daflyboys]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

Whoever emerges, I just hope we don't see any more of this naming pitches now, especially for fledgling pitchers.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/mlb_experts/post/Clayton-Kershaw-s-curve-ball-is-Public-Enemy-No-?urn=mlb,70777

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T2M0c6DxCMY&rel=1&border=0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T2M0c6DxCMY&rel=1&border=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Yes, that's a nasty pitch, but there's no reason to name it after a former gangster or hip-hop group or any of that. I think that stuff only bastardizes the game.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

The term public enemy #1 has been around since the beginning of time, so I don't see the big deal. It was a great pitch, but I've sene other pitchers with curveballs just as nice. Buchholz's curve is nicknamed 'The Hammer'; it's much more of a hard break though instead of a big looping curve.

[daflyboys]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

"The beginning of time"? Missed that one in history class... lol. I just don't want this to get "cutesy" or gimmicky with every new pitch or pitcher coming down the pike. I got no problem with nicknames. Hell, sports nicknames are the ones that have actually been around since the beginning of time. Next thing we'll be nicknaming someone stolen base style or diving catch. I guess it has a bit of a WWF ring to it. I just don't think the sport needs it.

[rsox]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

All of a sudden i am reminded of Charlie Sheen in Major League 2: "If you can get a piece of it, you can re-name it".

[Bat]

Re: Most promising young pitcher?

1. Felix Hernandez
2. Philip Hughes
3. Tim Lincecum
4. Andrew Miller
5. Yovani Gallardo