CITO'S HOME!!!!!!

[Sandman42]

Re: CITO'S HOME!!!!!!

While the Red Sox are associated with sabrmetrics, they are 4th in the league in stolen bases this season. The Red Sox lineup is basically flawless. They have power, patience, speed, and hit for average.

Yes, but the Sox are also 2nd in SB success %.

The whole Moneyball/SABR view on stolen bases is not to never steal, it's to make sure that you aren't giving up outs. So if you can steal bases at a high % then by a means stela bases.

Granted almost half of the Red Sox steals have come from Ellsbury who has 34 SB and has only been caught 5 times.

[snepp]

Re: CITO'S HOME!!!!!!

The whole Moneyball/SABR view on stolen bases is not to never steal, it's to make sure that you aren't giving up outs. So if you can steal bases at a high % then by a means stela bases.

Yup, yet another popular misconception aided largely by the ignorant drivel of Joe Morgan and a ridiculous number of "professional" sports writers (who are quickly becoming irrelevant as their medium is dying) with an axe to grind.

[DrJones]

Re: CITO'S HOME!!!!!!

I think Paul Godfrey may have finally learned that the Sabrmetric philosophy doesn't fit the history and overall structure of the Toronto Blue Jays franchise.

That's the strangest thing I've read all week. Just because JP sucks and is labelled as a "Moneyball" disciple doesn't mean sabremetrics should be thrown out the window. JP decided to throw $126M at a "toolsy" player (Wells) with a career .330 OBP. Something tells me Beane and Bill James weren't exactly phoning JP to congratulate him.

I could be totally wrong on this but if Cito has this team playing well above .500 then there's going to be a total sea change in how the organization is run.

Like how? You do remember that when Cito's Jays won in 92 and 93 that Toronto had the biggest payroll in baseball both years, right? Hey, if Cito's return prompts the Jays' brass to authorize a $200M+ payroll, then I'm all for it.

[SPTO]

Re: CITO'S HOME!!!!!!

Like how? You do remember that when Cito's Jays won in 92 and 93 that Toronto had the biggest payroll in baseball both years, right? Hey, if Cito's return prompts the Jays' brass to authorize a $200M+ payroll, then I'm all for it.

I"m referring to the hitting philosophy. I'd like to see the organization embrace the aggressive approach at the plate and this would go hand in hand with drafting raw toolsy players who can be molded to "grip it and rip it" at the plate.

All this patience and building up the opposing pitcher's pitch count crap works for some teams but I prefer putting the pitcher on the defensive by looking for a certain pitch in the zone and going after it. It would probably lead to more strikeouts but the reward is so much greater.

Oh and Rogers can spend with the big boys he just chooses not to.

[DrJones]

Re: CITO'S HOME!!!!!!

I"m referring to the hitting philosophy. I'd like to see the organization embrace the aggressive approach at the plate and this would go hand in hand with drafting raw toolsy players who can be molded to "grip it and rip it" at the plate.

All this patience and building up the opposing pitcher's pitch count crap works for some teams but I prefer putting the pitcher on the defensive by looking for a certain pitch in the zone and going after it. It would probably lead to more strikeouts but the reward is so much greater.

I don't recall the "old" Jays (aside from Carter and Devo) being hackers. Alomar, Olerud, Molitor, and Winfield drew a ton of walks, and the early 90's Jays were always solidly in the top half of the AL in OBP. The problem isn't that the Jays' hitters aren't aggressive, it's that they're not good.

Also, if JP is truly a stathead who values patience and hates aggression so much, then why does he love David Eckstein and hate Adam Dunn?

[SPTO]

Re: CITO'S HOME!!!!!!

I don't recall the "old" Jays (aside from Carter and Devo) being hackers. Alomar, Olerud, Molitor, and Winfield drew a ton of walks, and the early 90's Jays were always solidly in the top half of the AL in OBP. The problem isn't that the Jays' hitters aren't aggressive, it's that they're not good.

Also, if JP is truly a stathead who values patience and hates aggression so much, then why does he love David Eckstein and hate Adam Dunn?

those old Jays teams were full of veterans who had a proven track record for the most part. Also there's a difference between being patient and being stupid. A lot of the Jays hitters this year looked at pitches that could've easily been extra base hits or HRs just to "work the count". You can be selective like those Jays teams of the early 90s but don't take it to such extremes that you let a fastball that goes down the pipe get by you without a hack at it.

As for JP, most people took the Eckstein signing as JP finally relenting to the whole "character/gritty" ballplayer mularkey that the fans kept bringing up the last couple years.