Albert Pujols = MVP

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  • phillycannon1720
    Rookie
    • Aug 2008
    • 94

    #61
    Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

    plus come on all these Cardinals fans are jus mad cuz their team aint do squat. You guys are probably right statistically correct, but value to his team is all Howard. I just think Howard did more than Pujols to help his team to do good. Pujols had a good season and I'm happy he won it more than Manny winning it or Sabathia winning it. But on the same token, Howard did have a slow start, but he did lead the league in Homers and RBIs, which matter more to me than someones avg or obp anyday. I care more about hitting runs in and hitting balls out the park. You guys obviously care more about a guy who had a great average and great other stats,which are just plain numbers to me in terms of value. I think value is what you can do when your team needs you do something. Howard did great things when he was actually needed in September. Pujols had great numbers, but when it came to September, he didn't put the team on his back and lead them to at least a playoff berth. It is what it is, numbers should not be the only factor I think. Okay Howard stole the MVP in 2006 I admit that. But Howard was more deserving this year. That's just my thoughts on it. Pujols was the statistical MVP, Howard was the more valuable MVP however.
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    • CMH
      Making you famous
      • Oct 2002
      • 26203

      #62
      Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

      Originally posted by phillycannon1720
      IHaving a good hitting day in July doesn't matter nearly as much as it does in September.
      Actually it does.

      A win in July counts for the same amount as a win in September.

      One.
      Last edited by CMH; 11-18-2008, 10:29 PM.
      "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

      "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

      Comment

      • Brandon13
        All Star
        • Oct 2005
        • 8915

        #63
        Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

        If Pujols hit in that Philly lineup there's no telling how many RBIs he'd put up.

        HTML Code:
         I Split         G   GS  PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF ROE GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
        +-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
           Total        162 158 700 610 105 153 26  4 48 146  81  17 199   3   0   6   2  11   1  1  .251  .339  .543  .881  .285   132   100 Total 
        
        I Split         G   GS  PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF ROE GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
        +-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
           Total        148 143 641 524 100 187 44  0 37 116 104  34  54   5   0   8   1  16   7  3  .357  .462  .653 1.114  .340   196   100 Total        
               
        Theres no way the guy with the first statline is more valuable than the guy with the second. It's really similar to when Pujols beat out Andruw Jones for his first MVP. Andruw had more homers and RBIs, but Pujols was better in every other category.

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        • CMH
          Making you famous
          • Oct 2002
          • 26203

          #64
          Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

          Originally posted by phillycannon1720
          Oh yea to speak personally, Pujols didn't win his team enough games. The Cardinals finished 11 and half games out of first place.So suck it up Cards fans and Pujols lover
          Actually, Pujols did win more games than Howard.

          Pujols finished with 35 Win Shares while Howard had 25. Chase Utley, the real MVP of the Phillies, finished with 30.

          In case you have to ask what Win Shares are, here's the definition:

          It considers statistics for players, in the context of their team, and assigns a single number to each player for his contributions for the year. All pitching, hitting and defensive contributions by the player are taken into account. Statistics are adjusted for park, league and era.

          Also, a single win share is considered 1/3 of a team's win. So, Pujols was responsible for over 10 Cardinal wins this season. Howard was responsible for under 10.
          "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

          "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

          Comment

          • P2K
            Banned
            • Aug 2006
            • 8845

            #65
            Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

            Just when I thought this thread was safe...someone had to come in and fart all over it.

            Just to get this out of the way...this guy DOES NOT speak for the rest of us Phils fans

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            • phillycannon1720
              Rookie
              • Aug 2008
              • 94

              #66
              Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

              Sorry people I just don't agree Howard is the true MVP to me. Utley is good, but being valuable to me is doing it when it matters for real. Pujols had more win shares, but how many of those came in games that put the team in position to get to the postseason. I really don't care what other Phillies fans believe or think I just think Howard had a better season than Pujols in terms of value. Pujols had the stats. Stats beats value, just like 2006 when Howard won it. Playoffs should matter in voting. His team finished 4th in the division come on. I don't care about other fans, stupid stats, that's just hogwash to me. Sorry howard had better value to me.
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              • CMH
                Making you famous
                • Oct 2002
                • 26203

                #67
                Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

                Originally posted by phillycannon1720
                ...but how many of those came in games that put the team in position to get to the postseason.
                You keep saying this as if games in June don't count in the standings.
                "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                Comment

                • snepp
                  We'll waste him too.
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 10007

                  #68
                  Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

                  Massive amounts of failure.
                  Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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                  • phillycannon1720
                    Rookie
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 94

                    #69
                    Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

                    Hey everybody hatin on my opinion I'm not right or wrong, you guys aren't right or wrong the NL MVP IS Albert Pujols, he won I give him his props, I just think Howard should've won that's just my opinion it's not wrong or right, that's just my thought You can hit me with stats and everything, but guess what when I wake up tomorrow I will still think Howard should have won. Sorry I don't agree with most of America. But this is a FORUM, we can share our thoughts and opinions how we so choose. That is just mine. Sorry I love my team so much that I think my favorite player should be MVP. My opinion doesn't matter, I'm not a baseball writer so leave my opinions alone cuz this is just stupid now.
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                    • snepp
                      We'll waste him too.
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 10007

                      #70
                      Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

                      It's my opinion that your opinions, specifically the rationale given for them, are asinine.
                      Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                      Comment

                      • phillycannon1720
                        Rookie
                        • Aug 2008
                        • 94

                        #71
                        Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

                        Sorry if it came across that way but that's just how I felt everyone was just so hype on those numbers just wanted to put another spin on it. I mean I understand why he won and hey he had a great year, so good for him. I'd rather have a World Champion anyway, so I guess I'll take the Commisioners trophy over MVP.
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                        • Brandon13
                          All Star
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 8915

                          #72
                          Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

                          Originally posted by phillycannon1720
                          Sorry people I just don't agree Howard is the true MVP to me. Utley is good, but being valuable to me is doing it when it matters for real. Pujols had more win shares, but how many of those came in games that put the team in position to get to the postseason. I really don't care what other Phillies fans believe or think I just think Howard had a better season than Pujols in terms of value. Pujols had the stats. Stats beats value, just like 2006 when Howard won it. Playoffs should matter in voting. His team finished 4th in the division come on. I don't care about other fans, stupid stats, that's just hogwash to me. Sorry howard had better value to me.
                          A far as getting into position to make the playoffs, the games in April count toward it just as much as the games in September.

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                          • phillycannon1720
                            Rookie
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 94

                            #73
                            Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

                            Okay we can stop quoting my posts now its gotten quite old seriously I already said my peace I admit Pujols is the MVP, but I personally feel Howard should have won. Sorry posters but thats where I stand.
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                            • elTodd
                              Little Big Puig
                              • Feb 2004
                              • 1333

                              #74
                              Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

                              Let me preface this by saying that I like Ryan Howard. As a student at Missouri State University I have to root for an MSU Alum. I believe Ryan Howard is one of the best young players in the game. A true power hitter in every sense.

                              However, I am first and foremost a St. Louis Cardinals fan, and more importantly an Albert Pujols fan (one of my idols not only for his play, but also his off-the-field work and charities). So I probably do have some bias towards Pujols.

                              Now, if we are going to talk MVP, the Most Valuable Player, I believe that Albert Pujols hands down deserved the award. I believe he should have won it in 2006, and well pretty much every year since he's been in the league. I think he would have way more than 2 had it not been for Bonds. But anyways, to me, the MVP is a player that helps his team accomplish something they wouldn't have accomplished if he were not there.

                              Lets rewind a little bit and go back to the beginning of the season. Now the Cardinals were predicted to be in the cellar by May. I mean no one, even most of the die-hard Cardinal faithful expected much from this team. Now I will admit, the emergence of Ryan Ludwick and Rick Ankiel, as well as the great pitching at the start of the season played a huge roll in the Cardinals success. But Albert Pujols carried this team for almost the entire season. If Albert had half the team that Howard did, in my opinion the Cardinals would have been a playoff team. But, instead they were in the hunt for the majority of the season, and finished 4th behind 2 playoff teams and a surging Astros club who got hot during the stretch.

                              Now lets go to the Phillies. If I remember correctly, the Phillies were expected to finish near the top of the division and give the Mets a run for their money, which they did with Howard being almost a non-factor the majority of the season. One great month, does not an MVP make. I think Utley was more of a factor with his amazing first half and not completely falling of the face of the earth in the second half.

                              I just don't understand how a guy who strikes out 199 times can be considered an MVP. I don't think you can really be valuable to your team when you strike out 28% of the time you come to the plate.

                              I will finish this by saying that I am happy for Albert. He is a great guy who is having a tremendous career. Now hopefully ownership can pony up some cash and get him some guys to help him out. I don't think he can take another year of carrying an entire team on his back.
                              Last edited by elTodd; 11-19-2008, 12:02 AM.

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                              • phillycannon1720
                                Rookie
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 94

                                #75
                                Re: Albert Pujols = MVP

                                I understand your take on it and at leaast you didn't attack me with nonsense. I agree a little bit, we were expected to do pretty good,but we struggled down the stretch and it was good bullpen pitching and Howards 11 hrs in September that pushed us into the playoffs. I understand Pujols is my second favorite player in the NL behind Howard in terms of overall greatness. But like Howard just has more value to me then Pujols. I mean attack me if you like because I don't agree with mainstream America, but seriously none of this discussion matters. Pujols is the MVP whether I like it or not, so can we mature and end this nonsense. I want to. Pujols is MVP. Howard is a World Champion. So they both have awards to be very proud of.
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