Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

[djep]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

If I had to guess, I would say Ricky Henderson used steroids.

First thought that popped in my mind as well. So sad.

[ryanm1058123]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

In no way does it shock me. But it steams me beyond belief. How people can get away w/crappy mess like this. Its one thing that Fox News does this shoddy underhanded junk, because you always have somewhere else to go. But when ESPN has almost a monopoly on sports news on TV, its downright reprehensible.

Do yourself a favor and when it comes to baseball, watch MLB Network. They may schill, but they schill for all teams. And you got guys like Jon Heyman, Jon Hart, and Ken Rosenthal on there who give you a fair analysis all the time.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

Do yourself a favor and when it comes to baseball, watch MLB Network. They may schill, but they schill for all teams. And you got guys like Jon Heyman, Jon Hart, and Ken Rosenthal on there who give you a fair analysis all the time.

I don't trust MLB to be honest about the MLB on the MLB network.
But like I said, I need satellite. The crappy local CHarter Cable sucks beyond sucks.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

i could see Ryan dabbling with it late in his career as he was VERY close with Tom House who was the pitching coach at the time. He has admitted to using roids and I wouldn't be surprised if he urged pitchers that he's coached to try them.

Where do you get the Eckersley thing from though?

I think 95% of the players who have played w/LaRussa have used. Eck had a "revival" of his career late. We've always said it was moving to the bullpen. But it could have been something else. Oakland had some other pitchers who "got better" around that time. Like Welch & Stewart.

[ryanm1058123]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

I don't trust MLB to be honest about the MLB on the MLB network.
But like I said, I need satellite. The crappy local CHarter Cable sucks beyond sucks.

They are more honest than ESPN. And that's a sad sad commentary.

[FedEx227]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

Griffey's probably the least likely of this generation of sluggers to be on the juice, as the arc of his career numbers are more "traditional", in that he peaked at 27-28 and didn't all of a sudden become a much better hitter in his mid-30s. Also, there are stories out there about Bonds and Griffey talking about the possibility of doing roids in the winter of 98/99 and Griffey being adamant about not being interested. Though whether there's any truth to those stories, who knows?

I'd argue half-biasedly that Frank Thomas gets the distinction of least likely.

He has been relatively the same size since college. He has an entire family of pretty big bodies. His sister looks like a damn linebacker.

Plus he's been adamant about steroid testing for years dating back to as far as 1994 he urged baseball to start testing. He ramped up that encouragement after Giambi juiced his way to the 2000 AL MVP. Even encouraged the 2003 White Sox to all skip out on their mandatory steroid testing so as to bring the percentage of "positive" tests high enough to trigger mandatory testing. That doesn't really seem like the actions of a user.

He was even picked up by Congress to go to those steroid hearings as kind of the "clean" player rep.

[Misfit]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

Do yourself a favor and when it comes to baseball, watch MLB Network. They may schill, but they schill for all teams. And you got guys like Jon Heyman, Jon Hart, and Ken Rosenthal on there who give you a fair analysis all the time.

I've never seen Jon Heyman referenced as a draw for anything.

I'm in "whatever" camp. If anyone truly thought the Red Sox did not have any steroid users on their teams during the steroid era than they deserve to be blind-sided. I'm mildly curious to see how Ortiz and the Red Sox spin this in the coming days. As for me personally, it does nothing for me as far as the '04 and '07 titles go. I never assumed everyone was clean though I've never been interested in playing the game of speculation. I'll give players the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise. Both of those championships were won under the new drug policy anyways so if guys were still 'roiding they were either really good at it or on HGH, which can be said about any player even today. Part of me does enjoy seeing the Player's Union embarrassed over this. Really, if it were anonymous why did they ever allow names to attached to samples in any way, shape, or form? I can't believe the players are so spineless that they haven't demanded jobs be lost over this, but they're all making millions anyways so its water under the bridge apparently.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

They are more honest than ESPN. And that's a sad sad commentary.

IF they are, that's a tragedy.

There really needs to be a truly independent sports news source on the airwaves.

[bsb13]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

I'd argue half-biasedly that Frank Thomas gets the distinction of least likely.

He has been relatively the same size since college. He has an entire family of pretty big bodies. His sister looks like a damn linebacker.

Plus he's been adamant about steroid testing for years dating back to as far as 1994 he urged baseball to start testing. He ramped up that encouragement after Giambi juiced his way to the 2000 AL MVP. Even encouraged the 2003 White Sox to all skip out on their mandatory steroid testing so as to bring the percentage of "positive" tests high enough to trigger mandatory testing. That doesn't really seem like the actions of a user.

He was even picked up by Congress to go to those steroid hearings as kind of the "clean" player rep.

I believe Frank is probably clean. When he was born the doctor didn't put him into his mothers arms, the doctor put his mother into his arms. He's always been huge.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

Anyone that claims this taints the RedSox WS victories is plain silly. Boston was the best cheaters in a league full of cheaters.

What this taints is the Mitchell report, that somehow missed any Boston player using PED's.

[FedEx227]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

I believe Frank is probably clean. When he was born the doctor didn't put him into his mothers arms, the doctor put his mother into his arms. He's always been huge.

Hahahaha... exactly. Dude was probably 5'9 180 out of the womb. Plus he doesn't have a lot of peaks and valleys in his numbers. They are ultra-consistent, match up with his college and minor league numbers and he fell apart at the time players are SUPPOSE to fall apart. He didn't have a Barry Bonds late 30s resurgances.

[mvb34]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

Can they just release all the damn names at once?

I think because there probably names on that list that used steriods and did nothing for their careers that would put a hole in steriods makes you a better player.

[NYJets]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

Hahahaha... exactly. Dude was probably 5'9 180 out of the womb. Plus he doesn't have a lot of peaks and valleys in his numbers. They are ultra-consistent, match up with his college and minor league numbers and he fell apart at the time players are SUPPOSE to fall apart. He didn't have a Barry Bonds late 30s resurgances.

Yes, as far as power hitters go, I think Thomas and Griffey are the 2 safest bets in the league.

[ryanm1058123]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

Next on ESPN: Red Sox Classics! The Steroid's Day Miracle

Against all odds, Big Papi overcomes a steroid scandal to juice a three-run homer, leading the Sox in an epic, improbable comeback against the vaunted Oakland Athletics bullpen.

[FedEx227]

Re: Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz on "The List"

Yes, as far as power hitters go, I think Thomas and Griffey are the 2 safest bets in the league.

Yeah, Griffey is a bit odd because of the injuries but most of them were a direct result of him doing something on the field. Breaking his wrist at the wall trying to catch, diving, etc. None of them were as random as the Sammy Sosa hurt my back sneezing or whatever or the Nomar "my groin completely fell off the bone"