Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[rsox]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Dick Allen won't get in because a lot of people didn't(don't?) like him and there is nothing special about his numbers.

Dave Kingman isn't in because he is a .236 lifetime hitter with more strikeouts than hits who happend to hit the ball a long way, when he hit the ball.

Mike Piazza will get in because he is the greatest offensive Catcher of all time.

Curt Schilling may get in, but probably not on the first ballott.

Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa are interesting cases and we will see how harshly the voters will judge the poster children for the steroid era.

If this were the Hall of Character Craig Biggio gets in head and shoulders above everyone else, unfortunately it is the Hall of Fame and he is probably borderline at best. Having 3000 hits while getting them playing premium defensive positions (C, 2B, CF) helps Biggio's case though.

Bernie Williams is another player who is borderline that could probably get in. He may not have the best regular season numbers as many players in the HOF but he does have very good post-season numbers, 4 rings, and Yankee pinstripes to help his case.

[travis72]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Dick Allen won't get in because a lot of people didn't(don't?) like him and there is nothing special about his numbers.

Dave Kingman isn't in because he is a .236 lifetime hitter with more strikeouts than hits who happend to hit the ball a long way, when he hit the ball.

Mike Piazza will get in because he is the greatest offensive Catcher of all time.

Curt Schilling may get in, but probably not on the first ballott.

Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa are interesting cases and we will see how harshly the voters will judge the poster children for the steroid era.

If this were the Hall of Character Craig Biggio gets in head and shoulders above everyone else, unfortunately it is the Hall of Fame and he is probably borderline at best. Having 3000 hits while getting them playing premium defensive positions (C, 2B, CF) helps Biggio's case though.

Bernie Williams is another player who is borderline that could probably get in. He may not have the best regular season numbers as many players in the HOF but he does have very good post-season numbers, 4 rings, and Yankee pinstripes to help his case.

I like your list. Surely Piazza will get in. I would hope Bernie gets in. IMO anyone of the guys you mentioned that did steriods does not deserve to be in base on using PED's. Of course I have heard some sports writers that have said in time they would vote for some of them based on what they done prior to using, namely Bonds. Bonds had the numbers before he started using but in my opinion none of them should get in. If they won't put Pete Rose in then no one that used PED's deserves to be in either.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Dave Kingman isn't in because he is a .236 lifetime hitter with more strikeouts than hits who happend to hit the ball a long way, when he hit the ball.

His name should be banned from any serious HOF discussion. Yet he always seems to somehow pop up.

And whoever voted for Bret Boone should have their voting rights rescinded or he better have a damn good explination. The two acceptable ones: 1) If they fill in bubbles next to names, he was drunk. 2) If they write in the names, he was only writing first names and misspelled "Bert"

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

If this were the Hall of Character Craig Biggio gets in head and shoulders above everyone else, unfortunately it is the Hall of Fame and he is probably borderline at best. Having 3000 hits while getting them playing premium defensive positions (C, 2B, CF) helps Biggio's case though.

Bernie Williams is another player who is borderline that could probably get in. He may not have the best regular season numbers as many players in the HOF but he does have very good post-season numbers, 4 rings, and Yankee pinstripes to help his case.

Biggio is easily deserving, will get in 3rd or 4th ballot (because of the glut of big names).

Bernie will get in the year after Don Mattingly does.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Jack Morris and Alan Trammell deserve in. Nobody won more games than Morris in the 80's and he was a big game pitcher.

Trammell though, he was a career .297 hitter at shortstop and he won 4 gold gloves. 1 World Series MVP, 6 All Star Appearances, and robbed of the MVP in '87. He played 20 seasons.

Really think he deserves in.

[snepp]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Trammell, agreed. He's either been horribly underrated by most, or worse, been overlooked entirely. His DP partner is a similar story. I don't know if Whitaker deserves to be a HoF'er, but it's ridiculous that he didn't receive any consideration.


The "most wins of the 80's" thing for Morris is a lame and horribly lazy bit of analysis. It's the kind of worthless anecdote routinely vomited up by journalists that provides absolutely no value. If you want to cherry pick his 10 best years (since its purely coincidence that the 80's happened to perfectly overlap his prime) then you have to cherry pick every pitcher's 10 best years for comparison.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Soo I was talking about this with my friend today driving to school, Gary Sheffield HoF yes or no?

[Sportsforever]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Soo I was talking about this with my friend today driving to school, Gary Sheffield HoF yes or no?

His numbers say yes, but his personality/PED suspicions might keep him out. Throw in the fact he was a subpar defender and I don't see writers putting him in.

[snepp]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

His numbers say yes, but his personality/PED suspicions might keep him out. Throw in the fact he was a subpar defender and I don't see writers putting him in.

That sums it up. He's going to be in the same basket with various other players. Until the "PED ice" gets broken by somebody he isn't going to get the support.

Dude could really hit though, nearly finished with the sabermetric holy trinity of .300/.400/.500 to go along with more walks than strikeouts. That swing is probably still giving pitchers nightmares.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

His numbers say yes, but his personality/PED suspicions might keep him out. Throw in the fact he was a subpar defender and I don't see writers putting him in.

Agreed. See: Belle, Albert.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Very few people could get the bat through the zone as quick as Sheffield. He's deserving but who knows..

What about Pudge. It's impossible to say he is not deserving, it's gonna come down to PED suspicion.

[travis72]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Very few people could get the bat through the zone as quick as Sheffield. He's deserving but who knows..

What about Pudge. It's impossible to say he is not deserving, it's gonna come down to PED suspicion.

Has Pudge been linked to PED's? I know Sheffield has but i did not think Pudge had been. If he has thats a shame I always like him.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Yeah Sheff is linked to PEDs possibly, but the allegations aren't nearly as big as those compared to Bonds, Mcgwire,etc. I don't believe he actually did anything, but that's just me and this is prolly not the conversation for that.

[doncoryell]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Has Pudge been linked to PED's? I know Sheffield has but i did not think Pudge had been. If he has thats a shame I always like him.

From what I heard, the answer is the same as Sheffield, yes, but I can't remember the year. I think I heard it briefly on Ken Burns' "Tenth Inning". I'll have to watch it again.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Yeah Sheff is linked to PEDs possibly, but the allegations aren't nearly as big as those compared to Bonds, Mcgwire,etc. I don't believe he actually did anything, but that's just me and this is prolly not the conversation for that.

Possibly? Sheffield admitted in 2004 to receiving and using the same PED's as Bonds ("the cream and the clear"). Sheff claimed they weren't steroids because, in his own words, "steroids are something you shoot in your butt."