Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No I agree with you. He's not in yet. None of those players on that list are yet. They all have work to do.

I just feel like Joey will age well. He's a natural hitter. He's in borderline territory right now. He ages well he's in. That's why I said "unless he falls off a cliff" If he pulls a Juan Gonzalez from here on out. Then I agree with you. But I don't feel like that will be the case.

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I can agree with that. My main argument is his counting stats are low (particularly HR for a 1B). Not really his fault that the Reds have been an awful team for 70% of his career. But, it would sure help him to get some more playoff action as well.

EDIT: I think Utley is already in though. Some of the other guys are based on a few more years of good ballplaying.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I can agree with that. My main argument is his counting stats are low (particularly HR for a 1B). Not really his fault that the Reds have been an awful team for 70% of his career. But, it would sure help him to get some more playoff action as well.

EDIT: I think Utley is already in though. Some of the other guys are based on a few more years of good ballplaying.

Yea I should have excluded Utley. He can't do much more. His body of work is probably about finished.

Hopefully Votto can get on a contender at some point. Unfortunately that likely won't ever be in Cincy.

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[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Hopefully Votto can get on a contender at some point. Unfortunately that likely won't ever be in Cincy.

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Votto's 34 and is owed at least $157M over the next 6 seasons. That's a lot of bread for a 1B/DH type, even for the Yankees and Dodgers of this world. Votto's making almost double what Big Papi got during his mid/late 30s seasons with the Red Sox.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Verlander is a future Hall of Famer, right?

He'll get to 200 wins this season (193 wins vs 116 losses for a 62.5 winning %). 2006 AL ROY. 2011 AL Cy Young, pitching Triple Crown, and MVP. Six top 5 CYA finishes (looking like he could add a 2nd Cy Young this season). Has exactly 2500 Ks right now. Led the AL in strikeouts 4 times. 2017 World Series title with Houston where he had a 1.06 regular season ERA after being traded there (2.21 ERA in the postseason). 3.40 career ERA entirely in the American League. 59.6 career WAR. 395 starts and 2613 IP. 11-6 in 135 postseason innings with a 3.07 ERA. 81 FIP- for his career.

Considering that the current year, at 35 years old, might be his best season yet--he could probably pitch until he's 40. He should be pretty much a lock, no? Bonus points for Kate Upton, too.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Verlander is a future Hall of Famer, right?

He'll get to 200 wins this season (193 wins vs 116 losses for a 62.5 winning %). 2006 AL ROY. 2011 AL Cy Young, pitching Triple Crown, and MVP. Six top 5 CYA finishes (looking like he could add a 2nd Cy Young this season). Has exactly 2500 Ks right now. Led the AL in strikeouts 4 times. 2017 World Series title with Houston where he had a 1.06 regular season ERA after being traded there (2.21 ERA in the postseason). 3.40 career ERA entirely in the American League. 59.6 career WAR. 395 starts and 2613 IP. 11-6 in 135 postseason innings with a 3.07 ERA. 81 FIP- for his career.

Considering that the current year, at 35 years old, might be his best season yet--he could probably pitch until he's 40. He should be pretty much a lock, no? Bonus points for Kate Upton, too.

He should be a lock imo.

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[JayCutlersCig]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

First off, we already know there is at least one PED user in the HOF (see Thomas Boswell). My guess is Rickey Henderson or Cal Ripken. I'm sure Pudge Rodriguez, Piazza, etc, all used as well.



Secondly, how you can lump PED users in with Pete Rose is beyond me. Rose knew from day one that betting on baseball is a lifetime ban...he chose to do so anyway. Technically he isn't banned from the HOF, but the HOF has chosen to keep him out in following with baseball's lifetime ban. That said, the PED issue vs Rose's gambling are two different issues completely, IMO.



I personally have no problem with putting PED users in the HOF (heck, Babe Ruth was a PED user...he took injections of sheep testosterone in 1925) because at least they are trying to win, but someone who gambles on the game can't be tolerated in that they can damage the integrity of competition and that would be a death nail for any sport.

I don’t care who you are or what you’ve done, but if you can set the MLB record for hits, you deserve to be in the Hall. He bet on his own team and even then, the records are iffy on whether or not he did anything, according to an SI article I read a few years ago.

[GreenLightning]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Verlander is a future Hall of Famer, right?

He'll get to 200 wins this season (193 wins vs 116 losses for a 62.5 winning %). 2006 AL ROY. 2011 AL Cy Young, pitching Triple Crown, and MVP. Six top 5 CYA finishes (looking like he could add a 2nd Cy Young this season). Has exactly 2500 Ks right now. Led the AL in strikeouts 4 times. 2017 World Series title with Houston where he had a 1.06 regular season ERA after being traded there (2.21 ERA in the postseason). 3.40 career ERA entirely in the American League. 59.6 career WAR. 395 starts and 2613 IP. 11-6 in 135 postseason innings with a 3.07 ERA. 81 FIP- for his career.

Considering that the current year, at 35 years old, might be his best season yet--he could probably pitch until he's 40. He should be pretty much a lock, no? Bonus points for Kate Upton, too.

Lock. Upton assures entrance.

[gr18]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

First off, we already know there is at least one PED user in the HOF (see Thomas Boswell). My guess is Rickey Henderson or Cal Ripken. I'm sure Pudge Rodriguez, Piazza, etc, all used as well.

Secondly, how you can lump PED users in with Pete Rose is beyond me. Rose knew from day one that betting on baseball is a lifetime ban...he chose to do so anyway. Technically he isn't banned from the HOF, but the HOF has chosen to keep him out in following with baseball's lifetime ban. That said, the PED issue vs Rose's gambling are two different issues completely, IMO.

I personally have no problem with putting PED users in the HOF (heck, Babe Ruth was a PED user...he took injections of sheep testosterone in 1925) because at least they are trying to win, but someone who gambles on the game can't be tolerated in that they can damage the integrity of competition and that would be a death nail for any sport.

Can't say much for a person who speculates that Cal Ripken of all people was a PED user. Let's just name every player except ones from our favorite team and leave it at that then.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Can't say much for a person who speculates that Cal Ripken of all people was a PED user. Let's just name every player except ones from our favorite team and leave it at that then.

I love Cal Ripken...I loved watching him break the streak, how he played the game, etc, so this isn't me "hating" Ripken or anything like that. There has been speculation about him for years, especially after Boswell's comment...a writer narrowed down the players that Boswell could have been talking about based on his comments and it was only 4 (IIRC 3 were Rickey Henderson, Cal Ripken, Wade Boggs).

[gr18]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I love Cal Ripken...I loved watching him break the streak, how he played the game, etc, so this isn't me "hating" Ripken or anything like that. There has been speculation about him for years, especially after Boswell's comment...a writer narrowed down the players that Boswell could have been talking about based on his comments and it was only 4 (IIRC 3 were Rickey Henderson, Cal Ripken, Wade Boggs).

Fair enough. I would certainly say Rickey Henderson would be the obvious candidate. Wade Boggs...possible but Cal Ripken had a ton of integrity for the game. Probably as much as anyone who ever played.I very seriously doubt he would ever go that route.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Is Jon Lester a HoF lock? I imagine those 3 World Series titles with Boston/Chicago will do quite a lot for his chances.

His WAR is a bit low and he doesn't have a Cy Young, but those are the only blemishes I can really find. He's got a decent shot at 200 wins and 2500 Ks. Nearly has a full season of playoff pitching stats (148 IP, 9-7, 2.55 ERA).

Fun stat that since Lester became a full time MLB'er in 2008, he's never made fewer than 31 starts in any season.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Fair enough. I would certainly say Rickey Henderson would be the obvious candidate. Wade Boggs...possible but Cal Ripken had a ton of integrity for the game. Probably as much as anyone who ever played.I very seriously doubt he would ever go that route.

I agree...if you asked me to bet, I'd go with Rickey. Nothing surprises me anymore though.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Is Jon Lester a HoF lock? I imagine those 3 World Series titles with Boston/Chicago will do quite a lot for his chances.

His WAR is a bit low and he doesn't have a Cy Young, but those are the only blemishes I can really find. He's got a decent shot at 200 wins and 2500 Ks. Nearly has a full season of playoff pitching stats (148 IP, 9-7, 2.55 ERA).

Fun stat that since Lester became a full time MLB'er in 2008, he's never made fewer than 31 starts in any season.

Still too early to tell, IMO, and if he continued to pitch at a really high level until he's 40 maybe. For me, he's a probably a no...he's this generations Andy Pettitte and not just because he's a lefty. A really good pitcher on really good teams, but just a hair below HOF caliber.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Fair enough. I would certainly say Rickey Henderson would be the obvious candidate. Wade Boggs...possible but Cal Ripken had a ton of integrity for the game. Probably as much as anyone who ever played.I very seriously doubt he would ever go that route.

What does "integrity for the game" mean?

[SPTO]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Max Scherzer HOF?

I say yes especially if he keeps this up for another 2 or so years.