Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

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  • BleacherBum2310
    All Star
    • Aug 2010
    • 7107

    #1051
    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

    comparing Bonds and Griffey really isn't far haha. Bonds is just the GOAT. And I would think most of Griffey's negative DWAR or other defensive metrics came after Seattle.
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    • TripleCrown9
      Keep the Faith
      • May 2010
      • 23705

      #1052
      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

      Originally posted by SPTO
      Eh, I think a lot of it is self-inflicted even if you take out the PED stuff. You gotta remember, Bonds was just VICIOUS with the media. Yeah, there'd be times when he got along but it would have to be under the right circumstances. (like highly controlled 1-on-1 interviews etc etc) Even without the PED use I think there'd be a sizable contingent that would deny him 1st ballot entry based on how horrible of a person he could be. There'd still be people that thinks he's a complete A-Hole.

      That being said, Bonds has handled his post baseball career like a champ. He's been under the radar and done some good things away from the game like his ownership of a female cycling team and the baseball training stuff he does with kids in the bay area. He's kept very quiet about it all unlike Clemens, yet he hasn't done a (weak) mea culpa like McGwire so it's not perfect but I think Bonds has done a lot to clean up his image that way.
      Ty Cobb punched a woman in the face and spiked guys on the regular, and he got 98.2% of the votes.
      Boston Red Sox
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      • SPTO
        binging
        • Feb 2003
        • 68046

        #1053
        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

        Originally posted by TripleCrown9
        Ty Cobb punched a woman in the face and spiked guys on the regular, and he got 98.2% of the votes.
        I'm not saying it's right but we've seen these writers have a chip on their shoulders in the past. In a perfect world though Bonds is a 1st ballot guy.
        Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

        "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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        • mb625
          DJ2K
          • Jan 2012
          • 5016

          #1054
          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

          Originally posted by 55
          Considering that:

          A) The HoF is already full of guys who used greenies, doctored baseballs, gambled on games, etc.

          and...

          B) Plenty of the pitchers (along with hitters) Bonds faced during his era were just as juiced up. The reason it wasn't obvious that most of the other guys that did them was that the talent level was nowhere near what Bonds' was before juicing.

          Keeping a guy out of the HoF because of steroids/HGH is laughable.
          Could not agree with this more. Baseball is a product of its era. Can't call steroids an advantage if basically everyone was doing it. Level playing field.
          MLB: Minnesota Twins
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          • TheMatrix31
            RF
            • Jul 2002
            • 52926

            #1055
            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

            I think people have let the perpetual controversy following Bonds cloud their memory of just how insane of a player he was.

            Like....I don't even have words to describe how ridiculous he was. Too bad with all the controversy, or else people would rightfully be talking about him as one of the top 5 players of all-time.

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            • Ghost Of The Year
              Turn Left. Repeat.
              • Mar 2014
              • 6390

              #1056
              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

              Originally posted by 55


              Unless you are 80 years old (or older) Bonds is the best baseball player you have seen in your life.
              Don't have to be 80 to have seen Mays & Aaron play. I'd even rather have had Roger Clemens & Randy Johnson over Bonds & whom ever is the 2nd best hitter behind Bonds since the mid-eighties. But then again, I am partial to pitching.
              T-BONE.

              Talking about things nobody cares.

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              • AC
                Win the East
                • Sep 2010
                • 14951

                #1057
                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                Originally posted by redsox4evur
                You realize Matrix already had trout on that list right? That's why I didn't list him.
                True, my bad. I still don't get how you have Joey Gallo anywhere near Bryant and Harper. I'm a massive Gallo fan but there are still very, very real concerns about if he'll make enough contact. He hasn't performed anywhere close to how the other two have. He's a fantastic prospect but it's unfair to include him with guys like Harper and Bryant.
                "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

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                • TripleCrown9
                  Keep the Faith
                  • May 2010
                  • 23705

                  #1058
                  Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                  Originally posted by AC
                  True, my bad. I still don't get how you have Joey Gallo anywhere near Bryant and Harper. I'm a massive Gallo fan but there are still very, very real concerns about if he'll make enough contact. He hasn't performed anywhere close to how the other two have. He's a fantastic prospect but it's unfair to include him with guys like Harper and Bryant.
                  Well on the first two pitches he saw in the Majors he got his first hit, then his first home run. His first game he was a triple short of the cycle, and he hit a home run the next night.
                  Boston Red Sox
                  1903 1912 1915 1916 1918 2004 2007 2013 2018
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                  • redsox4evur
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Jul 2013
                    • 18169

                    #1059
                    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                    Originally posted by AC
                    True, my bad. I still don't get how you have Joey Gallo anywhere near Bryant and Harper. I'm a massive Gallo fan but there are still very, very real concerns about if he'll make enough contact. He hasn't performed anywhere close to how the other two have. He's a fantastic prospect but it's unfair to include him with guys like Harper and Bryant.
                    I think it's just the potential to hit a ton of HR's in his career.
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                    • AC
                      Win the East
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 14951

                      #1060
                      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                      Originally posted by TripleCrown9
                      Well on the first two pitches he saw in the Majors he got his first hit, then his first home run. His first game he was a triple short of the cycle, and he hit a home run the next night.
                      JP Arencibia's first game in the major leagues, he hit two homers and finished a triple short of the cycle.

                      Daniel Nava hit a grand slam in his first ever MLB at bat.

                      Two games really don't mean anything whatsoever. My signature is in jest, 12 at bats is not a sample size. Even 60 plate appearances would be okay, since that's when strikeout rate becomes reliable. But two games?
                      "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

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                      • 55
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 20857

                        #1061
                        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                        Originally posted by redsox4evur
                        I think it's just the potential to hit a ton of HR's in his career.
                        He's totally Dave Kingman Jr. I'd wager a fair amount on that.

                        Comment

                        • Chip Douglass
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 12256

                          #1062
                          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                          Originally posted by TripleCrown9
                          Well on the first two pitches he saw in the Majors he got his first hit, then his first home run. His first game he was a triple short of the cycle, and he hit a home run the next night.
                          Originally posted by redsox4evur
                          I think it's just the potential to hit a ton of HR's in his career.
                          The power and athleticism are sufficient that Gallo (IMO) will be a productive player in the big leagues, but yeah, the contact issues are serious enough that he might not ever be much more than that, certainly not a Bryce Harper-type player.

                          Even Kris Bryant has come in for the same criticism (strikes out too much) and he struck out a lot less than Gallo in the minors.
                          I write things on the Internet.

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                          • Chip Douglass
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Dec 2005
                            • 12256

                            #1063
                            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                            K% stabilizes pretty quickly (60 PAs or so) and Gallo's already struck out in 40+% of his PAs.

                            Guys occasionally solve their contact issues though, so there's reason for optimism. Mike Schmidt struck out in over 30% of his plate appearances his rookie year, cut his K% by a third the following year, and solved his strikeout problem.
                            I write things on the Internet.

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                            • Speedy
                              #Ace
                              • Apr 2008
                              • 16143

                              #1064
                              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?



                              Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
                              I don't deny Barry's abilities as he was truly an all-time great...for me at least, his use of steroids cloud my perspective of him.

                              I've provided the HOF's voting criteria so maybe it's a subjective point...is it more about providing a class of players who were truly great in their era or players who were great and had a positive impact on baseball? I see Barry as a HOF-type player by the numbers but not when looking at how he got there.

                              I know there's an argument to made that players use all types of medics to help performance and there are already dirty players in the hall currently. But I don't believe that should justify why [x] player should get a pass. There were players in MLB that did played the right way so why should they be affected negatively? I think McGriff and even Edgar is in that boat of under appreciated players directly because of the steroid era.
                              Originally posted by Gibson88
                              Anyone who asked for an ETA is not being Master of their Domain.
                              It's hard though...especially when I got my neighbor playing their franchise across the street...maybe I will occupy myself with Glamore Magazine.

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                              • Chip Douglass
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Dec 2005
                                • 12256

                                #1065
                                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                I don't mind people taking PED use into account when determining HOF worthiness, but there comes a point where a guy's performance so outstrips his bad character/PED use that he crosses the threshold for HOF induction.

                                Barry Bonds (and Clemens and A-Rod) are those guys to me. Character is important, but so is enshrining the game's best performers.
                                I write things on the Internet.

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