Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

[ryanm1058123]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

at this topic. Did CB Bucknor or Angel Hernandez die overnight?

I bet one of you did this.



What a joke. Death threats. Jim Joyce is one of the best umps in the game. He simply made an error. It happens.

edit: sorry for the language on the facebook post. i'd be steaming mad if i was his son as well, though.

[biker_jim_uk]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

The more I watch and read the more I can't believe he didn't call it? I'd have called him out on anything close. I still can't find a reason for Selig not to call it a perfecto? As previously posted the chances of this happening again are millions to 1 and it didn't\wouldn't change the scores etc apart from a couple of ABs.

I liked Schillings comments and Joyce's reaction coming into the game today.

[DTX3]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

What a terrible call and a terrible commissioner.

[ryanm1058123]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

By the way, he makes one bad call and he's instantly the worst ump ever.

What a joke. Take your emotions out of it and look at it like a normal human being.

[thmst30]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Selig continues to prove why IMO he is the worst commissioner in sports. Reversing that call has ZERO impact on the outcome of the game, and practically everyone wants it to be overturned. A chance to make things right, and of course Bud doesn't have the balls to do it. Weak **** Selig. Also you make the call right, and most everyone gets off of Jim Joyce's back because his monumental mistake would have been swiftly corrected. Idiot.

[Blzer]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Here's the thing... I won't feel sorry for Joyce missing that call. Quite frankly, I've had about enough with umpires making bad calls. I heard him in the post-game and he honestly felt that he made the right call, so at least I feel better that he actually looked at the play, whereas I see a lot of "top plays" on the highlight reel where the runner is blatantly safe and umpires seem to be trigger-happy for the sake of the play (don't you notice it tends to be the home team that's getting that call as well?).

However, I will feel sorry for Joyce's reputation amidst all of this. I actually tend to like Joyce as an umpire, and I know my umpires. He is normally very good. But in the world of baseball, umpires are [quite obviously] expected to make the correct, unbiased call. So when an umpire messes up, that's all they're ever talked about. That being said, Joyce will be remembered for this call. It wouldn't have mattered if he was literally 100% correct on his calls for thirty consecutive seasons, he will be remembered for this and nothing else. When people hear his name or if he's calling a game on ESPN, the announcers will go back to the infamous play that took away a perfect game from a pitcher.

Keeping that in mind, this call should not be reversed. There is a rule in baseball and softball, in any league that you have played in, that once another pitch is thrown there is no longer any sort of appeals on a previous play. There are protests, and the difference with that is it is made after the game and it is a rules-based ordeal, not for a judgment call. If Selig overturns this play, not only does that demean the post-game celebration that Galarraga could have had for himself anyway (and in fact it would put the weight on his head in a way that he would not like it, as well as Joyce), but that means that we're literally erasing a part of the scorebook. That means the batter afterward no longer has an 0'fer somewhere, even though he really did make an out. That means the batter that reached base safely gets a dent in his hit column. What if he was on a 40 game hitting streak and he needed that to extend it? What do we do with the call then? What I am saying is that we cannot change a call solely because of the circumstances, especially when it is an imaginary individual feat claimed by Major League Baseball and it did not decide a win, loss, playoff berth, or championship. In the eyes of the umpires, the situation should not ever matter and they should always make the call based on what they see and their knowledge of the sport. Bud Selig should treat it the exact same.

Finally, I think it would be worse if the play was the opposite... that the runner beat it out and the umpire called him out. I know that you would be hearing from me much more if that happened. That would mean that you are crediting a pitcher with a perfect game, the rarest of the rare in sports history, appending his name to a list that had only happened twenty other times in over a century of Major League Baseball. How can anyone possibly say that would be okay? I understand that it feels more magical and such and no one might be on the umpire's case, but now you're giving the pitcher something that he didn't deserve rather than taking away from something he did deserve. The other issue with this is, the way you guys are talking about reversing calls, if the umpire calls out a runner that is clearly safe, there is no reversal of that ever, especially a day later. What are you going to do after you reverse it the next day, set up the situation in the ninth inning and continue the game as is? No, you can't do that.

It sickens me that he missed the call (even more so given the situation but as an umpire, coach, player, and perfectionist myself it sickens me always when they miss calls), but it sickens me more that there are people out there sending death threats, calling him the worst umpire ever, and that he will forever be remembered for robbing the pitcher of a perfect game. It was all just bad timing, unfortunately.


EDIT: By the way, I always wanted to ask a question regarding the movie Mr. 3000 and when Stan Ross was robbed of his 3,000th hit in the final game of his career. I was wondering why nobody ever scrutinized the umpire and got the call reversed, or why it wasn't talked about again? I was wondering what would actually happen in a real life situation and how it is that the public would respond to such a poor call? I guess I got my answer.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Finally, I think it would be worse if the play was the opposite... that the runner beat it out and the umpire called him out. I know that you would be hearing from me much more if that happened. That would mean that you are crediting a pitcher with a perfect game, the rarest of the rare in sports history, appending his name to a list that had only happened twenty other times in over a century of Major League Baseball. How can anyone possibly say that would be okay?

"It's better to let 100 guilty men go free than to sentence one innocent man to prison"

In my mind, I'd rather see one name added to this elite list with some controversy than to see one man denied who 100% deserves it. The kid threw a perfect game and was robbed. To me, that is much, much worse than getting it the other way around...and IMO, it's not even close by a long shot.

The other issue with this is, the way you guys are talking about reversing calls, if the umpire calls out a runner that is clearly safe, there is no reversal of that ever, especially a day later. What are you going to do after you reverse it the next day, set up the situation in the ninth inning and continue the game as is? No, you can't do that.

That is why this situation is completely unique. But also why it's a risky call.

He can come out and say that the only reason he can over turn this call is because your example isn't a possibility in this situation. It was the last out of the game and the next batter did nothing. Had it happened to the first batter of the inning or in the first inning...I think everything changes...Had the next hitter come up and singled, reached on an error, walked, etc....I think it all changes...I agree in other situations you can't put a guy out there a day or a week later (no way he could throw the next day, though he only threw like 88 pitches) and just pick up and go...but this situation is completely unique to anything else that could happen in any of those other situations.

I understand the slippery slope it could possibly create, but as far as I know this is the only time a No-hitter or Perfect game has been blown by an umpire on the final out of a game. One time in a few hundred thousand games.

Just my $.02.

I understand both sides completely, I just think this situation is unique to all others.

[smokinjoe069]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

i think that everyone makes mistakes. as long as the right thing is done to correct it.

[Marino]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

People miss calls all the time, this was just terrible timing. I respect Joyce for taking it like a man and admiring he was wrong. I wish more people would do that. Plus, what great class shown by Gallaraga

[biker_jim_uk]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

That's what I think, the thing here is that giving him a perfect game doesn't need any replays, batters called back etc. Everyone can see the runner was clearly out and it was a perfect game. No-one gets hurt by Selig ratifying it, and as previously stated historians have removed no-hitters, HRs etc from players records retrospectively, it seems a no-brainer to me. Joyce and Donald have admitted it was an out, Baseball (and Selig) have a chance to do the right thing here and it's not like it'll have repercusions in the future as the chances of seeing this again are extremely slim, how many perfectos\no hitters have been broken up by close plays at first for the last out? I'd wager not many.

Maybe he could get a Pefect game with an asterisk ala Maris in 61?

[ckarlic]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

That's what I think, the thing here is that giving him a perfect game doesn't need any replays, batters called back etc. Everyone can see the runner was clearly out and it was a perfect game. No-one gets hurt by Selig ratifying it, and as previously stated historians have removed no-hitters, HRs etc from players records retrospectively, it seems a no-brainer to me. Joyce and Donald have admitted it was an out, Baseball (and Selig) have a chance to do the right thing here and it's not like it'll have repercusions in the future as the chances of seeing this again are extremely slim, how many perfectos\no hitters have been broken up by close plays at first for the last out? I'd wager not many.

Maybe he could get a Pefect game with an asterisk ala Maris in 61?

Pretty damn bad call. Still can't believe he was called safe. Gallaraga has a lot of class and I do give Joyce some props in fessing up to his mistake and not making excuses.

[ryan36]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Part of me wants Selig to reverse this, part of me wants to say you can't file a protest over a judgment call...because that's the rule

[rangerrick012]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Of course he doesn't overturn it, that makes too much sense.

NOTHING like this has ever happened before in baseball, and will likely never happen again. There's human element, and there's just fing up. Joyce knows he f'ed it up, Bud. Overturn it and give the kid the perfect game he deserves.

But that's too logical for illogical Selig. The same Selig who let the AS game end in a tie and turned a blind eye to the steroid era until Jose Canseco of all people exposed it. What a dope, as Tony Kornheiser would say.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Everything should be circumstantial.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

You can't reverse that call. No matter how blatantly obvious it is to everyone else, you just can't. You're opening up Pandora's Box by doing that. I'd much rather have the Commish say no to reversal, then open it up for discussion based on circumstances. It brings in too many variables for one man to decide upon.

I still think if they do replay, they keep the home run replay but give managers one challenge per game. Not on balls and strikes, but on any type of play at the plate, runner on base, fan interference, etc. If the manager uses his up, too bad, that's on it. It can help alleviate some bad calls by umps while still keeping the game in motion and keeping the human element alive.