The Hot Stove League Thread

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  • Dog
    aka jnes12/JNes__
    • Aug 2008
    • 11846

    #976
    Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

    Originally posted by SPTO
    Any AL East team that picks up Jurrjens will regret it. He'll get KILLED against the East.
    He's not even that good to begin with. Above average at best. That trade would be a robbery by the Braves
    Eagles | Phillies | Sixers | Flyers
    PSN: JNes__

    Comment

    • CabreraMVP
      MVP
      • Sep 2010
      • 1437

      #977
      Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

      He has a career 3.40 ERA in 700 innings. His WHIP is OK and better than averaged at 1.28.

      He's a quality pitcher. Not an ace, but he can be a good number 3. Durability is his only issue.

      He's had two great seasons, last year and 2009 when he threw 215 innings with a 2.60 ERA. He had a solid year in 2008, he just struggled in 2010.

      I'm sure he can pitch in the East, he's a very good pitcher. If he can just stay out there and rack up 30 starts, I bet he would be a very good pickup.'

      In 8 career starts agaisnt the American League, he has a 1.34 ERA. He's faced Boston and Texas twice (great offenses) and has looked very good even though it's a small sample size. In 11 career starts agaisnt the Phillies, he has a 2.45 ERA with a 1.001 WHIP. He can pitch agaisnt big lineups.

      He doesn't throw hard, and deliberately took even more MPH off his fastball last year to pitch to more contact. It comes in there 88, but he locates it and moves it around. He just knows how pitch. He's smart, he's young, and he can still get better. He's 25.

      If he stays healthy I think he's a fine number 3, and definitely better than what Baltimore has to work with. Everyday for the past 7 years, they send a guy out to the mound with a match and a can of gasoline. They could use a 25 year old with 3 very good seasons to his name.
      Last edited by CabreraMVP; 01-03-2012, 07:12 PM.
      JayElectronicaBluElzhi2PacTheNotoriousB.I.G.ReksSc arfaceFashawnJeruThaDamaja

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      • Dog
        aka jnes12/JNes__
        • Aug 2008
        • 11846

        #978
        Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

        Originally posted by JNes12
        Above average at best.
        Originally posted by CabreraMVP
        He's a quality pitcher. Not an ace, but he can be a good number 3.
        <url><url>
        Eagles | Phillies | Sixers | Flyers
        PSN: JNes__

        Comment

        • CabreraMVP
          MVP
          • Sep 2010
          • 1437

          #979
          Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

          Originally posted by JNes12
          He's not even that good to begin with.
          Originally posted by SPTO
          He'll get KILLED against the East.
          ............
          JayElectronicaBluElzhi2PacTheNotoriousB.I.G.ReksSc arfaceFashawnJeruThaDamaja

          Comment

          • Sportsforever
            NL MVP
            • Mar 2005
            • 20368

            #980
            Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

            Originally posted by JNes12
            He's not even that good to begin with. Above average at best. That trade would be a robbery by the Braves
            I would rather have a young, above average pitcher than a young, below average CF.
            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

            Comment

            • BunnyHardaway
              Banned
              • Nov 2004
              • 15195

              #981
              Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

              Originally posted by Sportsforever
              I would rather have a young, above average pitcher than a young, below average CF.
              If you think Adam Jones is below average...just SMH.

              Comment

              • Sportsforever
                NL MVP
                • Mar 2005
                • 20368

                #982
                Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                Originally posted by JJLinn
                If you think Adam Jones is below average...just SMH.
                I think Adam Jones is a remarkable talent with a very good glove. Offensively, he walks once a week or so and hits for low average. I will grant he is an above average player as a whole, but I don't want him in Atlanta. We just watched Alex Gonzalez for two years and Gonzo is just an older version of him as of now.
                "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                Comment

                • Dog
                  aka jnes12/JNes__
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 11846

                  #983
                  Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                  Truth is I don't know much about Adam Jones...never get to see him. But he's highly regarded by others so that's why I said robbery
                  Eagles | Phillies | Sixers | Flyers
                  PSN: JNes__

                  Comment

                  • BunnyHardaway
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 15195

                    #984
                    Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                    Originally posted by JNes12
                    Truth is I don't know much about Adam Jones...never get to see him. But he's highly regarded by others so that's why I said robbery
                    Torii Hunter is probably his ceiling, and I don't know why Duquette seems so eager to give up someone like that. He's still young enough that by the time guys like Machado/Schoop/Bundy/etc. are ready, he's still likely going to be in his prime.

                    I can sort of kind of get behind the idea of trading Nick, but not AJ.

                    Comment

                    • roadman
                      *ll St*r
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 26339

                      #985
                      Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                      Originally posted by Sportsforever
                      I think Adam Jones is a remarkable talent with a very good glove. Offensively, he walks once a week or so and hits for low average. I will grant he is an above average player as a whole, but I don't want him in Atlanta. We just watched Alex Gonzalez for two years and Gonzo is just an older version of him as of now.
                      Gonzo upgrade over Bettencourt for Brewer fans.

                      Comment

                      • CabreraMVP
                        MVP
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 1437

                        #986
                        Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                        The past 3 seasons Jones has had a .280/.325/.460 split with an .780 OPS. Good power (20-25 homers). When you add that with his glove, he's a pretty solid player who still has room to grow.

                        He's no Barry Bonds when it comes to on base percentage, but overall his numbers are pretty good for a center fielder. Would look nice in a Braves lineup in need of pop.
                        JayElectronicaBluElzhi2PacTheNotoriousB.I.G.ReksSc arfaceFashawnJeruThaDamaja

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                        • Bondgirl0072
                          Banned
                          • Jul 2010
                          • 1138

                          #987
                          Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                          Source: Veteran Crisp has 2-year deal with A's



                          Comment

                          • Sportsforever
                            NL MVP
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 20368

                            #988
                            Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                            Originally posted by CabreraMVP
                            The past 3 seasons Jones has had a .280/.325/.460 split with an .780 OPS. Good power (20-25 homers). When you add that with his glove, he's a pretty solid player who still has room to grow.

                            He's no Barry Bonds when it comes to on base percentage, but overall his numbers are pretty good for a center fielder. Would look nice in a Braves lineup in need of pop.
                            I have probably been too harsh on Jones...he is a nice player, but he looks a lot nicer to me in an Orioles uniform. Here is why I don't like him: in almost 2500 MLB PA's he has walked about once every 20 PA's, or about a 5% walk rate. Now, you might expect it would get better, but it hasn't and I don't think it ever will. Do you know who else has the EXACT same walk rate? Jeff Francouer. Here are there career lines up to this point:

                            Francouer - 270/313/433 = 746 OPS
                            Jones - 275/319/437 = 756 OPS

                            There per 162 game stats are almost identical as well. I don't hear anyone clamoring about Jeff Francouer being a stud and a dare say if Frank Wren traded JJ or Prado to acquire Francouer there would be an uprising.
                            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                            Comment

                            • BunnyHardaway
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 15195

                              #989
                              Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                              Swag has a much higher upside than Francouer ever did.

                              Comment

                              • CabreraMVP
                                MVP
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 1437

                                #990
                                Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                                While the career is similar they represent two players at two different stages. Franceour's line looks better than what it is, because his first 2 seasons was great and then for 5 years he struggled to hold an OPS over .700. Jones struggled early on. Jones played 31 games in 2006, 40 in 2007, and 2008 was his first full season. Once he got some PA's under his belt, he's been better than Francouer ever was and more consistent.

                                I don't see you are going to hold these poor years agaisnt him, you can't expect a rookie/september callup to have a good year. There is a million rookies who have a great September and never come close to that again and are back in the minor leagues within a year. Some great players have gotten called up and struggled. Those years don't matter.

                                The years that really matter are what he has done since 2009. I never hold a guys rookie numbers agasint them because it doesn't represent the player they are.

                                Since 2009, he has had nearly an .800 OPS like I said. He's been right out there each of the past 3 seasons. Franceour has come close to that twice, 2007 and last year.

                                So Jones is younger, and is much more consistent. Francouer followed up his .782 OPS in 2007, with .653 the next year, then .732, and .683.

                                Franceour's career year in 2007? Which he has really only come close to once since then? Jones has done that every year since 2009. And Jones has basically had 3 less full seasons in the big leagues, and is 2 years younger, and hasn't had his year best year yet.

                                Francouer has a .700 OPS since 2007. In that same time Jones has a .760 OPS and that is dragged down from his first full season where he struggled.

                                So Jones is much better, much more consistent, and younger. Franceour's .746 career OPS (which is inflated) is pretty bad for a corner outfielder. Jones is a Center Fielder, which makes him near .800 OPS seasons much more impressive.

                                I dont' care about Jones walk rate. Go find yourself a CF who can produce more than him. Any CF you find that gets on base more still won't be better than Jones. The fact that he can drive himself in is much more important than him getting on base so the dynamic 7-8-9 trio in the Orioles lineup can drive him in.

                                Walks are important, but aren't everything. Jones is one of the best offensive CF's in baseball despite his walk rate. How many CF's have a .350 OBP, 25 homers, and an .790 OPS? Go find out the asking price of Curtis Granderson if you want a power hitting, on base machine in Center Field.
                                Last edited by CabreraMVP; 01-04-2012, 01:57 PM.
                                JayElectronicaBluElzhi2PacTheNotoriousB.I.G.ReksSc arfaceFashawnJeruThaDamaja

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