The Hot Stove League Thread

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

While the career is similar they represent two players at two different stages. Franceour's line looks better than what it is, because his first 2 seasons was great and then for 5 years he struggled to hold an OPS over .700. Jones struggled early on. Jones played 31 games in 2006, 40 in 2007, and 2008 was his first full season. Once he got some PA's under his belt, he's been better than Francouer ever was and more consistent.

I don't see you are going to hold these poor years agaisnt him, you can't expect a rookie/september callup to have a good year. There is a million rookies who have a great September and never come close to that again and are back in the minor leagues within a year. Some great players have gotten called up and struggled. Those years don't matter.

The years that really matter are what he has done since 2009. I never hold a guys rookie numbers agasint them because it doesn't represent the player they are.

Since 2009, he has had nearly an .800 OPS like I said. He's been right out there each of the past 3 seasons. Franceour has come close to that twice, 2007 and last year.

So Jones is younger, and is much more consistent. Francouer followed up his .782 OPS in 2007, with .653 the next year, then .732, and .683.

Franceour's career year in 2007? Which he has really only come close to once since then? Jones has done that every year since 2009. And Jones has basically had 3 less full seasons in the big leagues, and is 2 years younger, and hasn't had his year best year yet.

Francouer has a .700 OPS since 2007. In that same time Jones has a .760 OPS and that is dragged down from his first full season where he struggled.

So Jones is much better, much more consistent, and younger. Franceour's .746 career OPS (which is inflated) is pretty bad for a corner outfielder. Jones is a Center Fielder, which makes him near .800 OPS seasons much more impressive.

I dont' care about Jones walk rate. Go find yourself a CF who can produce more than him. Any CF you find that gets on base more still won't be better than Jones. The fact that he can drive himself in is much more important than him getting on base so the dynamic 7-8-9 trio in the Orioles lineup can drive him in.

Walks are important, but aren't everything. Jones is one of the best offensive CF's in baseball despite his walk rate. How many CF's have a .350 OBP, 25 homers, and an .790 OPS? Go find out the asking price of Curtis Granderson if you want a power hitting, on base machine in Center Field.

I think you're cherry picking, but we can go that route if you want:

Adam Jones since 2009: 281/326/455 = 781 OPS
Avg season: 140 games, 108 K, 29 BB, 24 2B, 21 HR, 74 RBI, 10 SB

Jeff Francouer since 2009: 273/314/431 = 746 OPS
Avg season: 150 games, 99 K, 30 BB, 32 2B, 16 HR, 76 RBI, 12 SB

I don't see a huge difference between the two even in that time frame and outside of last year Jeff has sucked. You mentioned that Jones is a CF with an .800 OPS, but he hasn't even had an .800 OPS in his entire career (792 in 2009 being his highest). Throw in the fact that a lot of scouts think he is out of position in CF (doesn't have the range to play CF) and should move to a corner position and his value goes down even more imo.

Jurrjens and Jones both had their first full season in the bigs in 2008. At this point JJ's career WAR is 12 while Jones is 10 and that is with JJ battling injuries. Just my opinion, but I'd rather have a healthy JJ than a healthy Adam Jones. Now, JJ hasn't shown he can stay healthy which is why I don't mind him being dealt, but I want more in return that Adam Jones.

[BunnyHardaway]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

The Braves would be stupid to ask for or even think that they should get more in that package.

You're criminally underrating Swag.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

The Braves would be stupid to ask for or even think that they should get more in that package.

You're criminally underrating Swag.

It's hard to take a guy seriously when he's referred to as Swag.

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

The Braves would be stupid to ask for or even think that they should get more in that package.

You're criminally underrating Swag.

Maybe I am, but I wonder this - why are the O's even talking about moving him if he's such a great young player?

[BunnyHardaway]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

Maybe I am, but I wonder this - why are the O's even talking about moving him if he's such a great young player?

Because Dan Duquette is a moron and Peter Angelos is too cheap to extend him.

[bcruise]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7425259/chicago-cubs-close-trading-carlos-zambrano-miami-marlins

Would love to know what we're getting back for this. Names being floated around are Volstad and Dominguez. Wonder how much of Z's contract the Cubs are going to eat.

Edit: Oh wow....I just had visions of Z and Ozzie Guillen in the same dugout.

[Marino]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story...-miami-marlins

Would love to know what we're getting back for this.

The awfulness known as Volsted

Sent from Hayden Panettiere's #1 fan

[Mo]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

Done deal(pending physicals)

Cubs and marlins agree on trade that sends p Carlos Zambrano in exchange for Chris volstad .cubs pay 15 of 18 million .

[bcruise]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

Safe to say Theo really wanted Big Z gone?

[Chrisksaint]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

Volstad is gone and we got someone in return?!

[CabreraMVP]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

I think you're cherry picking, but we can go that route if you want:

Adam Jones since 2009: 281/326/455 = 781 OPS
Avg season: 140 games, 108 K, 29 BB, 24 2B, 21 HR, 74 RBI, 10 SB

Jeff Francouer since 2009: 273/314/431 = 746 OPS
Avg season: 150 games, 99 K, 30 BB, 32 2B, 16 HR, 76 RBI, 12 SB

I don't see a huge difference between the two even in that time frame and outside of last year Jeff has sucked. You mentioned that Jones is a CF with an .800 OPS, but he hasn't even had an .800 OPS in his entire career (792 in 2009 being his highest). Throw in the fact that a lot of scouts think he is out of position in CF (doesn't have the range to play CF) and should move to a corner position and his value goes down even more imo.

Jurrjens and Jones both had their first full season in the bigs in 2008. At this point JJ's career WAR is 12 while Jones is 10 and that is with JJ battling injuries. Just my opinion, but I'd rather have a healthy JJ than a healthy Adam Jones. Now, JJ hasn't shown he can stay healthy which is why I don't mind him being dealt, but I want more in return that Adam Jones.

So he is already better right now, more consistent, but he's 25 and his best years are to come. He's going to get better. And getting out of Baltimore and to a contending team could help him very more.

Jones is very good in CF. He's been top 3 in Range Factor, Putouts, and Assists for 2 years. He's not hurting his team out there. He's just flat out better, and younger then Franceour. He will get better while Franceour's best seasons are more than likely behind him.

And the whole "if he's so good why do they want to trade him" is the dumbest argument there is. Gio Gonzalez is great, why did the Athletics trade him? Why did the Tigers trade Granderson after he hit 30 homers in 2009? Why did Oakland just trade Cahill? Why did Seattle trade Doug Fister?

If players weren't good, they wouldn't be traded. Why does Baltimore want to trade him? Because he's young and talented. Which means he has great value.

He would help the Braves. They need some power in their lineup. As a Braves fan myself, I would love for them to add a 25 year old, 25 homer guy with a great glove to their lineup.

What am I missing with Atlanta? If Chipper is back at third, Prado is in LF, Bourn in CF, Heyward in RF, Uggla at 2nd. Would they still try to move Prado if they deal Jurrjens for Jones?

[bcruise]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

I was just watching some of Volstad's starts from last season on MLB TV.

Yeah, he's not very good. Not sure what Theo sees in him.

[1Rose]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

I do.

He's not fighting teammates in the dugout.

[Cubfan]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

I was just watching some of Volstad's starts from last season on MLB TV.

Yeah, he's not very good. Not sure what Theo sees in him.

I think its a case of we take your headache you take ours.

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

25 Years Old, 3 Years under control. That's what he's sees in him.

I don't think he's that good but a solid #4 SP. I'm surprised we got anything for him, let alone a Major League SP.