Most underrated and overrated player

[mpbaseball22]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Alright you guys dont understand what Im saying haha.

Mike Trout is NOT underrated. But, he is putting up MVP numbers his first year in the majors at only 21. The kid does something good every single day. When I put his name down I didnt mean in the sense he isnt getting hype, its more like he has the potential to be the greatest of all time

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Well, I would tell anyone who starts GOAT talk to pump the brakes.

[DieHardYankee26]

Trout is talked about the right amount. And I'm not buying this best rookie season ever stuff. Ted Williams went .327/.436/609 with 31 homers and 145 RBIs in his rookie season. Mike Piazza was .318/.370/561 with 35 homers and 112 RBIs at catcher. Even Pujols just 11 years ago, .329/.403/.610 with 37 homers and 130 RBIs. And for the age thing, Dwight Gooden was 19 and went 17-9 with a 2.60 ERA and 276 strikeouts in 218 innings as a rookie. Is this a great rookie season for Trout? Yes. Best ever? Not IMO.

[mpbaseball22]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

But you also got to remember trout is a 5 tool player, on pace for almost 30 HR and 50 SB. All while missing a month of the season. I think we all can agree this kid is special, maybe I exxagerated on him being underrated, but he will definitely win a couple of MVP awards in his career.


Anyways.. this isnt a Trout greatness thread so I'll stop now..


Underrated:

Vinnie Pestano, one of the best setup man in the league.

[Kashanova]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Overrated: Derek Sanderson Jeter.

Fair Warning I myself and a huge Yankee Fan. I've seen every single game Jeter has played. I can help but feel he's overrated. This guy has never been an elite player. When I say Elite I could never say that Jeter was the best player in baseball or at least in the top 5. He doesn't get feared. You'll never hear of a team having to intentionally walk him. He hits into a lot of double plays. I also wouldn't be surprise if he has the most infield singles in the history of baseball, a lot of hits that should be errors are inconceivably ruled as hits. I can't help but feel that Derek is very overrated. Now I haven't even touch the defensive side of things. I feel that his range on defense is decent at best, his arm is ok, and yet here we are and Derek is winning Gold Gloves left and right. It's puzzling to me.

Underrated: Fred Mcgriff, Jim Kaat

Also just for reference regarding Jeter I added a quote from an article.

Derek Jeter's second-inning bouncer had Marco Scutaro backing up awkwardly Tuesday night. The Red Sox shortstop fielded the ball and threw wide and in the dirt to first baseman Adrian Gonzalez as the Captain crossed the bag.

It was a bang-bang play. Still, Jeter was credited with a hit, the 2,987th of his career.

"If this is the kind of (official) scoring we can expect, Jeter might get his 4,000 hit on this home stand," a press-box wag scoffed.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-06-10/sports/29658931_1_jeter-thing-howie-karpin-yankees-history

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Overrated: Derek Sanderson Jeter.

Fair Warning I myself and a huge Yankee Fan. I've seen every single game Jeter has played. I can help but feel he's overrated. This guy has never been an elite player. When I say Elite I could never say that Jeter was the best player in baseball or at least in the top 5. He doesn't get feared. You'll never hear of a team having to intentionally walk him. He hits into a lot of double plays. I also wouldn't be surprise if he has the most infield singles in the history of baseball, a lot of hits that should be errors are inconceivably ruled as hits. I can't help but feel that Derek is very overrated. Now I haven't even touch the defensive side of things. I feel that his range on defense is decent at best, his arm is ok, and yet here we are and Derek is winning Gold Gloves left and right. It's puzzling to me.

Underrated: Fred Mcgriff, Jim Kaat

In a word, stop. You don't have to be feared to be elite. There's a lot of guys who were never top 5 in the entire sport that are great players. Your first underrated name comes to mind. Jeter's been a top 5 shortstop basically for his entire career. He's 7th in WAR, 9th in RBI, 2nd in hits, 2nd in runs, 7 in wRC+ (5th when you take out Hanley and Ross Barnes, both with half of his plate appearances), and has been one of the main cogs in a Yankee era that has produced 5 championships. No one says Jeter is the greatest player ever, they say he is a top 10 shortstop, arguably top 5, which he is. He's not a good fielder, this has been discussed as nauseum. No one thinks he deserves his gold gloves, everyone knows gold gloves are meaningless.

"You'll never hear of a team intentionally walking him." Are you kidding me? How many guys are there in the league that are intentionally walked with any kind of regularity? What a terrible argument.

And if the error is made as the runner crosses the base, then an argument can be made that he would've been safe anyway. Quotes don't tell stories, find a video clip and then maybe an argument can be made.

[Kashanova]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

In a word, stop. You don't have to be feared to be elite. There's a lot of guys who were never top 5 in the entire sport that are great players. Your first underrated name comes to mind. Jeter's been a top 5 shortstop basically for his entire career. He's 7th in WAR, 9th in RBI, 2nd in hits, 2nd in runs, 7 in wRC+ (5th when you take out Hanley and Ross Barnes, both with half of his plate appearances), and has been one of the main cogs in a Yankee era that has produced 5 championships. No one says Jeter is the greatest player ever, they say he is a top 10 shortstop, arguably top 5, which he is. He's not a good fielder, this has been discussed as nauseum. No one thinks he deserves his gold gloves, everyone knows gold gloves are meaningless.

"You'll never hear of a team intentionally walking him." Are you kidding me? How many guys are there in the league that are intentionally walked with any kind of regularity? What a terrible argument.

And if the error is made as the runner crosses the base, then an argument can be made that he would've been safe anyway. Quotes don't tell stories, find a video clip and then maybe an argument can be made.

9th in RBI for shortstops? I'm talking about overall. I don't make exceptions for players. I rank them as everyday players. As far as how they rate him. I felt he's rated to high thus why I think he's overrated. I've seen people say Jeter is the greatest player of our generation or things like he's the best player since (insert random elite player) As for IBB, there are a lot of players who get intentionally walked with regularity at some point in there careers.... I mean look at a guy like Ichiro who's very comparable with Jeter since they're both contact hitters, he got intentionally walked 27 times in one year. Tony Gywnn has over 200 in his career. So I don't think it's something that can just be discarded. I think it's a legit point, Also even though the Gold Gloves don't mean nothing that doesn't mean he's not overrated defensively too

[Marino]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Underrated: Chase Headley, Neil Walker, Michael Cuddyer

Overrated: Hanley Ramirez, Boston Red Sox, Mike Napoli

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

I will never understand the argument that Jeter is overrated. Never.

[Kashanova]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

I will never understand the argument that Jeter is overrated. Never.

I'm a yankee fan myself, and I've seen every game he's played in. I think it's a fair argument

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

9th in RBI for shortstops? I'm talking about overall. I don't make exceptions for players. I rank them as everyday players. As far as how they rate him. I felt he's rated to high thus why I think he's overrated. I've seen people say Jeter is the greatest player of our generation or things like he's the best player since (insert random elite player) As for IBB, there are a lot of players who get intentionally walked with regularity at some point in there careers.... I mean look at a guy like Ichiro who's very comparable with Jeter since they're both contact hitters, he got intentionally walked 27 times in one year. Tony Gywnn has over 200 in his career. So I don't think it's something that can just be discarded. I think it's a legit point, Also even though the Gold Gloves don't mean nothing that doesn't mean he's not overrated defensively too

No one with any legitimate baseball knowledge would say Jeter is the greatest player of this generation. Those are the same people that say Kobe is the greatest player ever, or Babe Ruth was over rated because of the competition he played against. They know nothing. They're irrelevant.

The intentional walk argument is irrelevant, and even more irrelevant because Ichiro was brought up. Who is the best player Ichiro has ever hit in front of? Are you kidding me? Jeter has hit in front of a prime Bernie, Tino, Sheff, A-Rod, Teixeira, Cano, etc. and has hit in some of the most prolific offensive teams of his time. That argument is ridiculous. Put Ichiro in Jeter's position and see if he gets intentionally walked hitting in front of A-Rod.

Defense: Again, no one with baseball knowledge says Jeter is a great defensive player. His range is terrible, but he generally makes plays he can get to and is a smart player. Heck, he's made two of the most famous defensive plays in Yankee history. Does that make him a great defender? No, but I'm not buying this he's a terrible defender. I'm still trying to understand how UZR is calculated, and I see he has the worst in history, but the only reason for that is half the guys under him have played half the games he has. I'm done with this because I don't want to derail the thread anymore, but this is ridiculous. And not comparing players against others at their position is ridiculous too. That means only the top 50 players of all time matter, and it doesn't matter that some play more difficult positions than others.

[Kashanova]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

No one with any legitimate baseball knowledge would say Jeter is the greatest player of this generation. Those are the same people that say Kobe is the greatest player ever, or Babe Ruth was over rated because of the competition he played against. They know nothing. They're irrelevant.

The intentional walk argument is irrelevant, and even more irrelevant because Ichiro was brought up. Who is the best player Ichiro has ever hit in front of? Are you kidding me? Jeter has hit in front of a prime Bernie, Tino, Sheff, A-Rod, Teixeira, Cano, etc. and has hit in some of the most prolific offensive teams of his time. That argument is ridiculous. Put Ichiro in Jeter's position and see if he gets intentionally walked hitting in front of A-Rod.

Defense: Again, no one with baseball knowledge says Jeter is a great defensive player. His range is terrible, but he generally makes plays he can get to and is a smart player. Heck, he's made two of the most famous defensive plays in Yankee history. Does that make him a great defender? No, but I'm not buying this he's a terrible defender. I'm still trying to understand how UZR is calculated, and I see he has the worst in history, but the only reason for that is half the guys under him have played half the games he has. I'm done with this because I don't want to derail the thread anymore, but this is ridiculous. And not comparing players against others at their position is ridiculous too. That means only the top 50 players of all time matter, and it doesn't matter that some play more difficult positions than others.

See that counter doesn't apply though, they're have been many great players that were walked and they even had great players batting behind them. Someone like Manny who was intentionally walked 28 times in one year even though David Ortiz was batting behind him.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

See that counter doesn't apply though, they're have been many great players that were walked and they even had great players batting behind them. Someone like Manny who was intentionally walked 28 times in one year even though David Ortiz was batting behind him.

Between Manny at .325/.427/.587 and Ortiz at .288/.369.592 who are you pitching to? Manny was a better hitter that year, and was treated accordingly.

[NYJets]

I'm a yankee fan myself, and I've seen every game he's played in. I think it's a fair argument

No one cares.

Being a Yankee fan doesn't mean you know what your talking about.


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[Sportsforever]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Overrated: Derek Jeter (more on this in a minute), Josh Hamilton, Carlos Gonzalez, Tommy Hanson, Hunter Pence, Bryce Harper, Dan Haren, Jason Heyward.

Underrated: Robinson Cano, Matt Wieters, Nick Swisher, Tim Hudson, Chipper Jones, Matt Holiday, Chase Headley, Paul Konerko, Josh Reddick, Billy Butler.

For Jeter I apply the "anywhere but NY" test. If Derek Jeter played for say, the Kansas City Royals, would he still be considered to be the same caliber of player as he is now. There is no doubt Jeter is a great player, a future HOF'r, and one of the best hitting SS of all time. The fact that he has been a Yankee has elevated him to something more. The players who are found to be similar are guys like Lou Whitaker, Johnny Damon, and Craig Biggio. Great/good players, but certainly not the category of player Yankee fans/Media like to place him in.