Most underrated and overrated player

[Mabster]

My point is...is that he is overrated. I think we can all agree that's the case...

According to what I've skimmed over the last three + pages that's obviously not the case. You guys should just agree to disagree so we can discuss something besides Jeter.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

According to what I've skimmed over the last three + pages that's obviously not the case. You guys should just agree to disagree so we can discuss something besides Jeter.

How so? Everyone acknowledged that he gets media pub in NY that tries to place him in the top 5 of Yankee players ever and yet EVERYONE agreed that he isn't in that top 5. What am I missing?

Just to throw out the type of articles I'm talking about:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/yankees/2011-07-06-derek-jeter-new-york-history_n.htm

http://hatedyankees.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/derek-jeter-secure-among-yankee-legends-strong-case-as-best-shortstop-ever/

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/2290

http://www.standard.net/topics/sports/2011/06/01/greatest-yankee-ever-think-derek-jeter

[Mabster]

I didn't realize we were basing this whole overrated/underrated argument based solely on what NY media writes. If that's the case, then isn't every single Yankee is overrated?

I'm not going to feed the argument with my opinion but the last three pages wouldn't exist if EVERYONE agreed. Being top 5 or not and being labeled overrated isn't the same thing.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

I didn't realize we were basing this whole overrated/underrated argument based solely on what NY media writes. If that's the case, then isn't every single Yankee is overrated?

I'm not going to feed the argument with my opinion but the last three pages wouldn't exist if EVERYONE agreed. Being top 5 or not and being labeled overrated isn't the same thing.

Okay, maybe I'm not getting the point of this thread...who are we saying overrates these players? Also, note that these articles aren't necessarily NY media. I get that not everyone is going to agree on how good/great Jeter is, but as the third article I posted states he is the ultimate overrated AND underrated player. I completely agree with that statement.

[Mabster]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

as the third article I posted states he is the ultimate overrated AND underrated player. I completely agree with that statement.

Hence why we need to agree to disagree.

Obviously there is going to be some disagreement in this thread depending on our personal location, personal perceptions, and media that we personally read. There's just no way around it.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Hence why we need to agree to disagree.

Obviously there is going to be some disagreement in this thread depending on our personal location, personal perceptions, and media that we personally read. There's just no way around it.

Do you think Jeter is underrated or at least not overrated? If so, why/how so?

[Mabster]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Do you think Jeter is underrated or at least not overrated? If so, why/how so?

I have a hard time with these types of arguments because I have a difficulty being objective on such things.

Case in point, Derek Jeter is overrated. Jeremy Giambi was SAFE!

Edit: I have other thoughts but I said I wasn't going to feed the argument.

[jth1331]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

From my perspective, Jeter is overrated in the sense he was claimed to be a better SS than Alex Rodriguez. Heck, when he was healthy, Nomar was right there with Jeter.
Is Jeter one of the best SS ever due to his hitting? He's up there, yes.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

*** Yes, the media massively overrates Jeter's defense and his "WHOMG clutchness". Yet for every factor they overrate his defense and "intangibles", they equally underrate his bat. Jeter didn't win his first Silver Slugger award until his age 32 season.

There is a reason why he didn't win any before then and that is Alex Rodriguez. Jeter's bat wasn't being underrated it was where it belonged somewhere behind A-Rod's.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

There is a reason why he didn't win any before then and that is Alex Rodriguez. Jeter's bat wasn't being underrated it was where it belonged somewhere behind A-Rod's.

I figured someone would bring this up.

Yes, A-Rod was a far better hitter than Jeter, but that doesn't mean there weren't particular years in which Jeter had the better bat while both played at SS.

In 1999, Jeter had 19 points of OPS+ on A-Rod and played in 29 more games, yet A-Rod won the Silver Slugger award.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

I figured someone would bring this up.

Yes, A-Rod was a far better hitter than Jeter, but that doesn't mean there weren't particular years in which Jeter had the better bat while both played at SS.

In 1999, Jeter had 19 points of OPS+ on A-Rod and played in 29 more games, yet A-Rod won the Silver Slugger award.

Ok then that was one season. That still doesn't mean Jeter's bat was underrated it's just that A-Rod was on another level. You made it seem like he was just getting overlooked.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Josh Willingham has been underrated his whole career. He's been with Florida, Oakland, Washington, Minnesota, so it's understandable, but he is really, really, good.

He's got great power...draws a lot of walks...hits for a decent average. He's really one of the more complete hitters in the game. He's got a .920 OPS this year in a pitchers ballpark on a horrible team. Last year, he hit 30 homers in Oakland which is pretty impressive for that stadium.
Seems like every year he's a solid .275/.360 OBP with pretty decent power. He's a bargain at 7 million a season for the Twins.
And Zimmerman for the Nationals also. People always talk about Strasburg and "the ace" getting shut down...but Zimmerman has been better. He's unknown to the average fan.

[Mabster]

Good call on Washington.

That new Minnesota park isn't easy to hit in either and he's mashing this year too. He's just quiet and gets the job done.

Sent from my N7

[jth1331]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Josh Willingham has been underrated his whole career. He's been with Florida, Oakland, Washington, Minnesota, so it's understandable, but he is really, really, good.

He's got great power...draws a lot of walks...hits for a decent average. He's really one of the more complete hitters in the game. He's got a .920 OPS this year in a pitchers ballpark on a horrible team. Last year, he hit 30 homers in Oakland which is pretty impressive for that stadium.
Seems like every year he's a solid .275/.360 OBP with pretty decent power. He's a bargain at 7 million a season for the Twins.
And Zimmerman for the Nationals also. People always talk about Strasburg and "the ace" getting shut down...but Zimmerman has been better. He's unknown to the average fan.

Zimmerman is a solid 3B, its just what gets some people probably is the injuries he's had the last few years. People tend to start forgetting about a guy that gets hurt a lot.

And Willingham, same thing sort of. Injured a lot, and he puts up decent numbers most of the time but nothing outstanding. Yes, he hit 29 homeruns and drove in 98 runs last year, but he hit .246 with an OBP of .332.

[WinMINTwins]

Re: Most underrated and overrated player

Notbeing a big NL guy, I'm only going to dothe AL.

Under-rated: Scott Diamond. 3.04 ERA (best among AL rookies), 1.21 WHIP (also best among AL rookies), 10-5 record. (Honorable mention: Craig "Kitten Face" Gentry

Over-rated: It may just be because I live here, but it's gotta be Napoli. There was not one thing that angered me more this year than Napoli not only being in the All-Star game, but that he started. I may be a tad biased, but Mauer was having a far better year. (Honorable Mention: A-Rod. Can you really be the most over-rated player in the AL when everyone says you are?)

Oh, and as for the Willingham discussion, the left field wall at Target Field is relatively shallow compared to the other walls. He's been pulling the ball to left a lot.
Here are his stats this year:
.260 AVG, .368 OBP, .540 SLG, 31 HR, 91 RBIs, 115:63 K:BB ratio