MLB Off-Topic

[AC]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I love it...Latos/Wood are now above average pitchers. I've said I was high on Wood on this board and gotten ripped by you guys that he's outpitching his peripherals and wasn't that good. Latos is on his 4th team in 4 years...lots of talent, but a real head case. Grandal for Kemp has worked out great for them no doubt. I'm not saying they haven't done well, but to jump on the band wagon and anoint them as geniuses before the trade deadline is even over is premature, IMO.

Latos is only a rental, I can't imagine him managing to sever a clubhouse entirely in only half a season. If they can deal with Puig they can deal with him too lool

Wood isn't special or anything but they really didn't give up very much to get him at all. He's probably having his worst season as is but it's hard to complain.

Zaidi and Friedman have always been smart guys, though. I was begging for Zaidi to come to Toronto for a solid year's worth of posts in the Jays team thread.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Latos is only a rental, I can't imagine him managing to sever a clubhouse entirely in only half a season. If they can deal with Puig they can deal with him too lool

Wood isn't special or anything but they really didn't give up very much to get him at all. He's probably having his worst season as is but it's hard to complain.

Zaidi and Friedman have always been smart guys, though. I was begging for Zaidi to come to Toronto for a solid year's worth of posts in the Jays team thread.

So wait...them giving up Oliveras (after paying nearly half his contract), who scouts have pegged as a potential all-star immediately, a top 15 prospect, and a decent LH reliever for a rental and a pitcher who "isn't special" is genius?

[AC]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

So wait...them giving up Oliveras (after paying nearly half his contract), who scouts have pegged as a potential all-star immediately, a top 15 prospect, and a decent LH reliever for a rental and a pitcher who "isn't special" is genius?

Where has Olivera been tabbed a potential all-star right now? What? The prospect isn't anything, and lefty relievers are a dime a dozen.

They will pay Olivera $28m in total. So what? They're the Dodgers. They traded him with the other 65% of his contract, and a few pieces with no value, for a good rental pitcher, a young controllable pitcher (through 2019) and a potentially very good prospect that you don't seem to like very much. I'd say that's a smart deal.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Where has Olivera been tabbed a potential all-star right now? What? The prospect isn't anything, and lefty relievers are a dime a dozen.

They will pay Olivera $28m in total. So what? They're the Dodgers. They traded him with the other 65% of his contract, and a few pieces with no value, for a good rental pitcher, a young controllable pitcher (through 2019) and a potentially very good prospect that you don't seem to like very much. I'd say that's a smart deal.

When the deal went down I went back and read all the scouting reports on him in his workouts...each one the scouts said "could be an all star from day 1, potential mega star". The guy raked in Cuba and did the same in the minors in a very small sample. The Dodgers didn't give him $62M because he was a scrub.

I've always liked Paco Rodriguez (beats the heck out Luis Avilan). Yes, you are right that I don't like Peraza...I've seen him play several times and he was garbage each time. He's a singles hitter who has always been overmatched by good pitching. I have never understood what people have seen in him.

EDIT: Here are a couple of the reports I found...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/hector-olivera-shines-final-showcase/

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasybaseball/update/25199247/scouts-anticipate-dodgers-hector-olivera-will-be-big-star-in-majors

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Anyone else get a lot of enjoyment out of KC's obsession with Fetty Wap? lol

http://deadspin.com/the-royals-are-obsessed-with-trap-queen-1720837380

KC has been a fun team for a while now and I'd encourage people to consider casually rooting for them after their own teams drop out of contention.

[redsox4evur]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Where has Olivera been tabbed a potential all-star right now? What? The prospect isn't anything, and lefty relievers are a dime a dozen.

They will pay Olivera $28m in total. So what? They're the Dodgers. They traded him with the other 65% of his contract, and a few pieces with no value, for a good rental pitcher, a young controllable pitcher (through 2019) and a potentially very good prospect that you don't seem to like very much. I'd say that's a smart deal.

Peraza isn't an elite prospect anymore. I posted a tweet last night when the trade was first reported, I think it was Rosenthal or Heyman, but it said Peraza was considered to be a very good prospect but not elite anymore.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

He's done nothing to show anything really either way yet...let's see how things pan out first.

Matt Kemp for Yasmani Grandal.

It will probably go down as one of the most lopsided trades of the 2000s.

Meh...I just don't think he got that great of a haul. There are a lot of "lotto tickets", as you put it, in what he got back. They all have question marks, from Latos to Wood to Peraza, and the rest are over the hill garbage.

I'll go on record - Jose Peraza will not be an impact major league player. He's severely overrated, IMO, and I e been calling for the Braves to trade him since last year.

It's Olivera, Michael Morse's contract, injured reliever, and 3 mediocre prospects for two solid starters, bullpen help, and a prospect who might fill a need in 2016.

Friedman + Zaidi solved a 2015 and potential 2016 problem in one fell swoop and at a reasonable cost. I'm very pleased.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Olivera's considered a 50-55 FV prospect: in essence, a +2 to +3 win player.

There's value in that, especially considering the cost, but let's not act like he's a super-prospect or something.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Olivera's considered a 50-55 FV prospect: in essence, a +2 to +3 win player.

There's value in that, especially considering the cost, but let's not act like he's a super-prospect or something.

...and if he turns into that it's a steal. The Braves will be paying ~$6M/year for 3 WAR, or $2M/WAR. I'll take that!

On the Grandal/Kemp trade...Kemp has been better than people realize (although still has played below expectations) and Grandal has basically been the player he was with San Diego before all the PED stuff started. As it is, they've both posted around the same WAR. Grandal is more valuable since he's a catcher, but let's not get crazy and call this the most lopsided traded in 15 years.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Olivera's considered a 50-55 FV prospect: in essence, a +2 to +3 win player.

There's value in that, especially considering the cost, but let's not act like he's a super-prospect or something.

I know aging curves aren't ironclad or anything, but the guy's in what most would consider late prime if not the decline phase of his career and hasn't even taken an MLB at bat yet. A huge risk, imo. I like Cuban sluggers as much as the next guy, but it's hardly a guarantee for a guy who'll be 31 before he takes a meaningful AB for the Braves, has injury concerns, isn't particularly athletic, and has failed to draw a walk in 31 PAs in AAA so far this year (if we want to read way too far into small samples).

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I know aging curves aren't ironclad or anything, but the guy's in what most would consider late prime if not the decline phase of his career and hasn't even taken an MLB at bat yet. A huge risk, imo. I like Cuban sluggers as much as the next guy, but it's hardly a guarantee for a guy who'll be 31 before he takes a meaningful AB for the Braves, has injury concerns, isn't particularly athletic, and has failed to draw a walk in 31 PAs in AAA so far this year (if we want to read way too far into small samples).

No doubt he's a risk...he's already had injury issues that caused him to miss serious time. The flip side is his body has really not had the wear and tear of a typical 30 year old due to a shorter season in Cuba and missing time for injuries. I just need him to be healthy for the next 5 years...heck, I wish he was younger, but 3B who can hit don't grow on trees and he's cheap.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

So, I hate doing this, but who would he "compare to" if he reaches his peak?

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

So, I hate doing this, but who would he "compare to" if he reaches his peak?

I think as a hitter he'll be very similar to Freeman, but since he's a 3B the comp I'll throw out is Mike Lowell. If he reaches his potential I can see him being that type of player...good defensively (he's a 2B converted to 3B), big body who hits for a decent average with some pop (15-25 HR's).

[Chip Douglass]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

On the Grandal/Kemp trade...Kemp has been better than people realize (although still has played below expectations) and Grandal has basically been the player he was with San Diego before all the PED stuff started. As it is, they've both posted around the same WAR. Grandal is more valuable since he's a catcher, but let's not get crazy and call this the most lopsided traded in 15 years.

Dude, Kemp's been absolutely terrible. Kemp's hovering around replacement-level whether by fWAR (0.1) or bWAR (0.6). Grandal's range is from 1.7 WAR (bWAR) to 2.6 (fWAR). And neither of those metrics captures pitch framing, which Grandal is exceptionally good at. And there's also the "Matt Kemp is pretty expensive while Grandal isn't" thing.

So it's a replacement-level pumpkin signed at 5/80 (we chipped in $30 million) for a young, cost-controlled All-Star catcher.

I wasn't kidding when I said it was one of the most lopsided trades of the 2000s. It is.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Dude, Kemp's been absolutely terrible. Kemp's hovering around replacement-level whether by fWAR (0.1) or bWAR (0.6). Grandal's range is from 1.7 WAR (bWAR) to 2.6 (fWAR). And neither of those metrics captures pitch framing, which Grandal is exceptionally good at. And there's also the "Matt Kemp is pretty expensive while Grandal isn't" thing.

So it's a replacement-level pumpkin signed at 5/80 (we chipped in $30 million) for a young, cost-controlled All-Star catcher.

I wasn't kidding when I said it was one of the most lopsided trades of the 2000s. It is.

No...you're right...I had checked Kemp's WAR a few days ago and read it wrong. I thought he was at 1.7 or so (honestly don't even know what I looked at because none of his numbers are close to that). I agree at this point that it looks like a steal for LA, but I just like to let some time pass on these trades before we declare winners.