MLB Off-Topic

[SPTO]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/siera/

Why'd you have to answer him? I was gonna post a pic of Ruben Sierra

[slickdtc]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Ah Siera, the one that got away...

[AC]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I get that you'd rather use xFIP to make your point because Davis doesn't give up HRs, but c'mon. Both are elite relievers. I would take either one.

What? I literally mentioned SIERA in the following sentence which would give Davis the edge as it includes batted ball, and Miller is still way better.

With all those categories, why not add in ERA, LOB%, and HR/9 ?

Because none of those are as predictive.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

This discussion makes me want some Sierra mist.

I prefer Miller to Davis. But hell, you can't really go wrong with either one.

Chapman
Miller
Davis
Jansen
Britton

Can you really go wrong there?

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[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

My least favorite thing about baseball is the ridiculous amount of advanced stats.

Their existence? The way they're used? I see this a lot and I don't get it.

[SPTO]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Speaking of advanced stats, Sportsnet's very own Gregg Zaun has a new stat named in honor of him called ZARP. (Zaun Run Production) It's very easy to understand too ( runs scored + RBI - HR divided by games played) and it has been taken up by the SABR internet community to the point that Baseball Ref. has a listing for it though you have to actually dig for the stat as it's not readily on the player stats.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Speaking of advanced stats, Sportsnet's very own Gregg Zaun has a new stat named in honor of him called ZARP. (Zaun Run Production) It's very easy to understand too ( runs scored + RBI - HR divided by games played) and it has been taken up by the SABR internet community to the point that Baseball Ref. has a listing for it though you have to actually dig for the stat as it's not readily on the player stats.

What in the world lol, I agree with trip, sabermetrics are a bit overrated.

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[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

My least favorite thing about baseball is the ridiculous amount of advanced stats.

"Advanced stats" certainly have their place in the game and we're all better off for that. I also enjoy debating it for the most part. I can't remember the last time I tried to figure out how good a player is and didn't at least glance at WAR, BABIP, FIP, DRS, UZR, etc.

That said, advanced stats are prone to over-interpretation much as previous generations read too much into HR, RBI, ERA, etc...People need to understand that no 1 stat encompasses everything, not even WAR, and that assumptions abound especially in advanced stats. In today's game, there is this undercurrent of new orthodoxy, which I find useful at times and laughable at others. It goes something like...no, don't pay any attention to your stat; my stat is what matters! Essentially this is FanGraphs' whole raison d'etre.

Would you rather have the guy that is predicted to have the best ERA if he had a do-over this season based on his peripherals? Or would you rather have the guy that actually had the best ERA with peripherals that were a bit worse? At some level, that's what it comes down to: actual value vs predictive value, and I can see both sides to the argument. I go back and forth on this myself a lot. Peripherals are shiny and nice. But, this is part of what makes advanced stats sort of a niche thing in the sport--people can't see a WAR but they can see a HR, a double, a RP getting out of a bases loaded jam. Baseball as a spectator sport is mostly for spectating and observable events will always have an advantage over mathematically derived ones. I think that's a good thing.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

What? I literally mentioned SIERA in the following sentence which would give Davis the edge as it includes batted ball, and Miller is still way better.



Because none of those are as predictive.

But are we talking about predicting the future? Or are we talking about who has been better (past tense)? Or who is better (present tense)? I already conceded that Miller has been a bit better and is better, but the whole tier below (or several tiers?) thing is not a concession I wish to make.

[SPTO]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

This conversation has me all

[areobee401]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Postseason television ratings are doing well.

http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/are-we-gonna-talk-about-how-good-baseballs-postseason-ratings-have-been.html

Their existence? The way they're used? I see this a lot and I don't get it.

My main beef with advanced stats in baseball is when they are used as the end all and be all to judge players value.

[slickdtc]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

They should be used in combination. Just like the saber guys think the eye test/traditional stats people are old, crusty cranks, they're becoming futuristic villainous evil geniuses.

Then there's the reasonable people in the middle who accept and see the value in new metrics but also know the game is played by actual humans with factors that can't be computed.

When I read about some of the new measurements, I sometimes find myself nodding in agreement as they prove out trends and things but other times shaking my head and thinking that's just not real life. Just like how RBI's aren't a perfect judgement of a player's ability to hit in the most clutch moments.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Agreed with the above. I love any kind of new statistical advancements, but it's not the end all. There needs to be a balance.

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[SPTO]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

They should be used in combination. Just like the saber guys think the eye test/traditional stats people are old, crusty cranks, they're becoming futuristic villainous evil geniuses.

Then there's the reasonable people in the middle who accept and see the value in new metrics but also know the game is played by actual humans with factors that can't be computed.

When I read about some of the new measurements, I sometimes find myself nodding in agreement as they prove out trends and things but other times shaking my head and thinking that's just not real life. Just like how RBI's aren't a perfect judgement of a player's ability to hit in the most clutch moments.

I like to think I fall a bit in the bolded part. I'm not one for the more exotic stats out there but a guy like Brian Kenny really explains these stats really well and while he probably leans more toward the SABR people he explains it in a very easy to digest manner. He doesn't talk down to the "unwashed" the way some of the more stats heavy geeks tend to do to people like me.

[Speedy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Postseason television ratings are doing well.

http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/are-we-gonna-talk-about-how-good-baseballs-postseason-ratings-have-been.html

My main beef with advanced stats in baseball is when they are used as the end all and be all to judge players value.

I'm going to attribute FS1's success relative to last year due to the Smoltzie affect.