War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

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  • SPTO
    binging
    • Feb 2003
    • 68046

    #16
    Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

    They were talking about this on MLB-N and John Smoltz made a great point about how scouts and such are looking at the velocity over and above the actual craft of pitching. He pretty much mourned the fact that pitchers don't pitch in different "lanes" and that the stresses of being asked to pitch longer in the big leagues compared to being even MORE babied in the minors is putting a ton of stress on young arms.

    There's also some talk of maybe lowering the pitchers mound as well.
    Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

    "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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    • 19
      Chaos Theory
      • Aug 2008
      • 8859

      #17
      Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

      Martin Perez, yep, Tommy John.

      **** is ridiculous.

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      • Jr.
        Playgirl Coverboy
        • Feb 2003
        • 19171

        #18
        Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

        Originally posted by SPTO
        There's also some talk of maybe lowering the pitchers mound as well.
        I heard this as well, but is it a result of injury, or because of the relative offensive struggle in the majors the last few years?

        The downward plane of the mound should relieve stress, in my mind, rather than increase it. Though, I don't know that for a fact.
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        • DamnYanks2
          Hall Of Fame
          • Jun 2007
          • 20794

          #19
          Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

          This ****'s watering down the league, this is just stupid, strangely the nba was hit hard with injuries too, although of a different sort.

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          • Travis40
            MVP
            • Nov 2008
            • 1651

            #20
            Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

            It's not TJ surgery, but Matt Harrison might need spinal fusion surgery, which would probably end his career. Both the Perez and Harrison injuries today are probably going to sink the Rangers season.

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            • Jr.
              Playgirl Coverboy
              • Feb 2003
              • 19171

              #21
              Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

              Originally posted by Jr.
              I heard this as well, but is it a result of injury, or because of the relative offensive struggle in the majors the last few years?

              The downward plane of the mound should relieve stress, in my mind, rather than increase it. Though, I don't know that for a fact.


              It's time for Major League Baseball to lower the mound -- and for the entire amateur market to follow its lead. When I took part in an MLB Network roundtable discussion last week on the epidemic of Tommy John surgeries, what struck me as most profound was the statement of fact by both Mets team physician Dr. David Altchek and biomechanics expert and former pitcher Tom House that the greater the slope of the mound the greater the forces that are applied to the arm. Reduce the height of the mound and you reduce the forces upon the arm. It makes perfect sense. What makes no sense is that 13-year-old kids are pitching off the same size mound as major league pitchers. Little Leaguers should be throwing off flat ground. (What's the first step for pitchers as they come back from injury? They throw off flat ground. Why? It's less strenuous.)

              I guess it is indeed less strenuous. It was always more awkward for me trying to pitch on flat ground (not just throwing, but executing pitches), than it was from a mound; that's probably why I assumed it was less strenuous.


              Seems like as good of an idea as any to try to reverse this trend a bit.
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              • Friar Fanatic
                Rookie
                • May 2012
                • 471

                #22
                Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

                Jose Fernandez didn't hurt his elbow because of throwing. He hurt his elbow because of his leg

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                • Jr.
                  Playgirl Coverboy
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 19171

                  #23
                  Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

                  Originally posted by Friar Fanatic
                  Jose Fernandez didn't hurt his elbow because of throwing. He hurt his elbow because of his leg

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                  Care to elaborate? I think I know what you mean, but I don't want to assume
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                  • Friar Fanatic
                    Rookie
                    • May 2012
                    • 471

                    #24
                    Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

                    Originally posted by Jr.
                    Care to elaborate? I think I know what you mean, but I don't want to assume
                    When Fernandez was hit by a line drive in a previous start it affected his delivery creating the injury.

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                    • SPTO
                      binging
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 68046

                      #25
                      Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

                      Originally posted by Friar Fanatic
                      When Fernandez was hit by a line drive in a previous start it affected his delivery creating the injury.
                      Um, then he still hurt his arm because of throwing. He altered his delivery which put undue stress on his shoulder/arm and created the injury. I'm surprised Fernandez didn't mention how the change in delivery to compensate for being hit by a line was effecting him.
                      Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                      "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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                      • Jr.
                        Playgirl Coverboy
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 19171

                        #26
                        Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

                        Originally posted by Friar Fanatic
                        When Fernandez was hit by a line drive in a previous start it affected his delivery creating the injury.
                        Not what I was thinking, and I didn't even know he was struck by a line drive previously.

                        How long ago was he hit? It could very well be the case, as I went through something similar in college. Got hit in the left ankle (my plant foot) and subconsciously adjusted my delivery to account for it. I threw another 30 innings after that, began experiencing shoulder discomfort and ended up having shoulder surgery a few weeks later.
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                        • Majingir
                          Moderator
                          • Apr 2005
                          • 47666

                          #27
                          Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

                          I doubt it has anything to do with this, but what if the frequency of when pitchers throw pitches impacts this?

                          Mark Buehrle for example,he pitches fast games(his games might only take 2 hours-2.5 hours at most to complete) because he doesn't waste time inbetween pitches and doesn't take like 20-30 seconds inbetween pitches to throw unlike many other pitchers. He's been healthy for his career. Maybe that might be part of the reason why? Not dragging out his games as long as he does and getting in the pitches as quick as possible instead of waiting abit inbetween them?

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                          • Jr.
                            Playgirl Coverboy
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 19171

                            #28
                            Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

                            Originally posted by Majingir
                            I doubt it has anything to do with this, but what if the frequency of when pitchers throw pitches impacts this?

                            Mark Buehrle for example,he pitches fast games(his games might only take 2 hours-2.5 hours at most to complete) because he doesn't waste time inbetween pitches and doesn't take like 20-30 seconds inbetween pitches to throw unlike many other pitchers. He's been healthy for his career. Maybe that might be part of the reason why? Not dragging out his games as long as he does and getting in the pitches as quick as possible instead of waiting abit inbetween them?
                            Eh, I really doubt that. Buerhle's lack of elite velocity and the ability to repeat his mechanics well is probably more likely the cause of his health.
                            My favorite teams are better than your favorite teams

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                            • Friar Fanatic
                              Rookie
                              • May 2012
                              • 471

                              #29
                              Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

                              Originally posted by SPTO
                              Um, then he still hurt his arm because of throwing. He altered his delivery which put undue stress on his shoulder/arm and created the injury. I'm surprised Fernandez didn't mention how the change in delivery to compensate for being hit by a line was effecting him.
                              Yes it is still because of a faulty throwing motion but it isn't because his arm was worn down or anything as most people are applying the sole cause to.

                              He said he didn't wanna mention it because "he would let his team down." and they were fighting for first place. If you look at his start you can see that he was hurt long before they took him out. I think after the 3rd or 4th inning his velocity plummeted but he stayed in pitching hurt. After he gave up the grand slam they went to check on him and took him out.

                              I was actually at that very game.

                              Originally posted by Jr.
                              Not what I was thinking, and I didn't even know he was struck by a line drive previously.

                              How long ago was he hit? It could very well be the case, as I went through something similar in college. Got hit in the left ankle (my plant foot) and subconsciously adjusted my delivery to account for it. I threw another 30 innings after that, began experiencing shoulder discomfort and ended up having shoulder surgery a few weeks later.
                              He was hit the start before he hurt his arm against the Padres.

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                              • Friar Fanatic
                                Rookie
                                • May 2012
                                • 471

                                #30
                                Re: War on Pitchers...It may be VERY real

                                Originally posted by Majingir
                                I doubt it has anything to do with this, but what if the frequency of when pitchers throw pitches impacts this?

                                Mark Buehrle for example,he pitches fast games(his games might only take 2 hours-2.5 hours at most to complete) because he doesn't waste time inbetween pitches and doesn't take like 20-30 seconds inbetween pitches to throw unlike many other pitchers. He's been healthy for his career. Maybe that might be part of the reason why? Not dragging out his games as long as he does and getting in the pitches as quick as possible instead of waiting abit inbetween them?
                                No. It is mainly because of how much stress is put on the elbow at a young age. In the United States young players pitch much faster for much longer and much earlier than elsewhere. Out of the 20 Tommy John's this year, only one has been Latin, the rest have been from the US.

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