Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

[SportsTop]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

Bay plays a position that demands high a high offensive output. The SS position demands strong defense. If Khalil were batting .230 with 25 RBI and a .290 OBP then I would definitely vote for Bay. The simple fact of the matter is that Khalil Greene (his team in a pennant race or not) has done more for his team then Jason Bay has.

Who would you vote for here:

Player A: 147 Games Played, .250 Avg, .312 OBP, .321 SLG, 39 RBI, 44 Runs

Player B: 50 Games Played, 7-5 W/L, 76 IP, 17 Saves, 2.13 ERA

You guessed it. Player A won. He played superb defense at the SS position.

His name.......Walt Weiss in 1988.

[SportsTop]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

Bay plays a position that demands high a high offensive output. The SS position demands strong defense. If Khalil were batting .230 with 25 RBI and a .290 OBP then I would definitely vote for Bay. The simple fact of the matter is that Khalil Greene (his team in a pennant race or not) has done more for his team then Jason Bay has.

Who would you vote for here:

Player A: 147 Games Played, .250 Avg, .312 OBP, .321 SLG, 39 RBI, 44 Runs

Player B: 50 Games Played, 7-5 W/L, 76 IP, 17 Saves, 2.13 ERA

You guessed it. Player A won. He played superb defense at the SS position.

His name.......Walt Weiss in 1988.

[3rdAnswer]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

I think Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene are SS of the future. I love the way both of them play. I think Greene is a little better defensively, but both are great.

[3rdAnswer]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

I think Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene are SS of the future. I love the way both of them play. I think Greene is a little better defensively, but both are great.

[mjb2124]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

Bay plays a position that demands high a high offensive output. The SS position demands strong defense. If Khalil were batting .230 with 25 RBI and a .290 OBP then I would definitely vote for Bay. The simple fact of the matter is that Khalil Greene (his team in a pennant race or not) has done more for his team then Jason Bay has.

That's all well and good, but like I said before, I could care less about team standings and what a player has done for a team in ROTY voting. Those 2 things are completely seperate of each other and should have no bearing on the other. The MVP voting is a different story and where team standings should play a vital part of the equation. You can't fault Bay for having terrible players surrounding him while Greene has better players around him.

I'm not saying Greene won't win (because I'm sure he will with the lack of media attention the Pirates get), I just don't think he deserves the ROTY as much as Bay does. Heck, if Bay had those 140 extra AB's, this wouldn't even be a topic because he'd be WAY ahead of all other contenders.

It's typical of the Pirates though. Jack Wilson got screwed out of the starting SS position in the All Star Game and Bay won't win the ROTY that I think he deserves. The Pirates always get robbed when it comes to awards because they don't have the media coverage that other teams have...

[mjb2124]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

Bay plays a position that demands high a high offensive output. The SS position demands strong defense. If Khalil were batting .230 with 25 RBI and a .290 OBP then I would definitely vote for Bay. The simple fact of the matter is that Khalil Greene (his team in a pennant race or not) has done more for his team then Jason Bay has.

That's all well and good, but like I said before, I could care less about team standings and what a player has done for a team in ROTY voting. Those 2 things are completely seperate of each other and should have no bearing on the other. The MVP voting is a different story and where team standings should play a vital part of the equation. You can't fault Bay for having terrible players surrounding him while Greene has better players around him.

I'm not saying Greene won't win (because I'm sure he will with the lack of media attention the Pirates get), I just don't think he deserves the ROTY as much as Bay does. Heck, if Bay had those 140 extra AB's, this wouldn't even be a topic because he'd be WAY ahead of all other contenders.

It's typical of the Pirates though. Jack Wilson got screwed out of the starting SS position in the All Star Game and Bay won't win the ROTY that I think he deserves. The Pirates always get robbed when it comes to awards because they don't have the media coverage that other teams have...

[SportsTop]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

That's all well and good, but like I said before, I could care less about team standings and what a player has done for a team in ROTY voting. Those 2 things are completely seperate of each other and should have no bearing on the other. The MVP voting is a different story and where team standings should play a vital part of the equation. You can't fault Bay for having terrible players surrounding him while Greene has better players around him.

I'm not saying Greene won't win (because I'm sure he will with the lack of media attention the Pirates get), I just don't think he deserves the ROTY as much as Bay does. Heck, if Bay had those 140 extra AB's, this wouldn't even be a topic because he'd be WAY ahead of all other contenders.

It's typical of the Pirates though. Jack Wilson got screwed out of the starting SS position in the All Star Game and Bay won't win the ROTY that I think he deserves. The Pirates always get robbed when it comes to awards because they don't have the media coverage that other teams have...

I still don't understand how you can't incorporate how well a player's team is doing into the ROTY voting. Bay has absolutely no pressure on him whatsoever to perform, while Khalil's team is in the thick of the playoff hunt and he is playing night in and night out with a more significant amount of added pressure. Not to mention the fact that Bochy has bounced him around in that line-up more often than I can count and he plays at the most notorious pitcher's park in the league.

All factor's that should be taken into consideration.

[SportsTop]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

That's all well and good, but like I said before, I could care less about team standings and what a player has done for a team in ROTY voting. Those 2 things are completely seperate of each other and should have no bearing on the other. The MVP voting is a different story and where team standings should play a vital part of the equation. You can't fault Bay for having terrible players surrounding him while Greene has better players around him.

I'm not saying Greene won't win (because I'm sure he will with the lack of media attention the Pirates get), I just don't think he deserves the ROTY as much as Bay does. Heck, if Bay had those 140 extra AB's, this wouldn't even be a topic because he'd be WAY ahead of all other contenders.

It's typical of the Pirates though. Jack Wilson got screwed out of the starting SS position in the All Star Game and Bay won't win the ROTY that I think he deserves. The Pirates always get robbed when it comes to awards because they don't have the media coverage that other teams have...

I still don't understand how you can't incorporate how well a player's team is doing into the ROTY voting. Bay has absolutely no pressure on him whatsoever to perform, while Khalil's team is in the thick of the playoff hunt and he is playing night in and night out with a more significant amount of added pressure. Not to mention the fact that Bochy has bounced him around in that line-up more often than I can count and he plays at the most notorious pitcher's park in the league.

All factor's that should be taken into consideration.

[mjb2124]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

I still don't understand how you can't incorporate how well a player's team is doing into the ROTY voting. Bay has absolutely no pressure on him whatsoever to perform, while Khalil's team is in the thick of the playoff hunt and he is playing night in and night out with a more significant amount of added pressure. Not to mention the fact that Bochy has bounced him around in that line-up more often than I can count and he plays at the most notorious pitcher's park in the league.

All factor's that should be taken into consideration.

I don't know man, I just don't think the team record is as important as individual performance when determining ROTY. If someone puts up numbers regardless of the team they are on, then I think they should be recognized (kind of like Gagne's streak. Great numbers, but none were in the playoffs. That certainly doesn't take away from his streak IMO). You could also take the flipside of that and say that since Bay has nothing to play for that he could just pack it up and give half effort.

Same goes for Bay in regards to lineup/park. He's been bounced around the Pirates lineup a lot and also plays most games in a pitchers park. PNC is very much a pitchers park to RH hitters (LH hitters not so much with the short porch in RF).

In any case, it's really just a matter of opinion. I just have a different one than you!

[mjb2124]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

I still don't understand how you can't incorporate how well a player's team is doing into the ROTY voting. Bay has absolutely no pressure on him whatsoever to perform, while Khalil's team is in the thick of the playoff hunt and he is playing night in and night out with a more significant amount of added pressure. Not to mention the fact that Bochy has bounced him around in that line-up more often than I can count and he plays at the most notorious pitcher's park in the league.

All factor's that should be taken into consideration.

I don't know man, I just don't think the team record is as important as individual performance when determining ROTY. If someone puts up numbers regardless of the team they are on, then I think they should be recognized (kind of like Gagne's streak. Great numbers, but none were in the playoffs. That certainly doesn't take away from his streak IMO). You could also take the flipside of that and say that since Bay has nothing to play for that he could just pack it up and give half effort.

Same goes for Bay in regards to lineup/park. He's been bounced around the Pirates lineup a lot and also plays most games in a pitchers park. PNC is very much a pitchers park to RH hitters (LH hitters not so much with the short porch in RF).

In any case, it's really just a matter of opinion. I just have a different one than you!

[Karlos05]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

Not just because I'm a Pirates fan but I'm still in Bay's corner. I really see no way that a teams standings should have any effect on ROY. Bay is playing in a rebuilding team with little talent around him. True he's not in a pressure situation but it's not like Greene is playing in New York. Plus, even though the Padres are in the playoff hunt it's not like Greene is carring the team. They have a lot of vetrans on that team who know how things work Nevin, Klesko, Giles and all. Greene is doing well but just because his team is in the race you can't give him the award and you can't eliminate Bay just because his team isn't contending.

[Karlos05]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

Not just because I'm a Pirates fan but I'm still in Bay's corner. I really see no way that a teams standings should have any effect on ROY. Bay is playing in a rebuilding team with little talent around him. True he's not in a pressure situation but it's not like Greene is playing in New York. Plus, even though the Padres are in the playoff hunt it's not like Greene is carring the team. They have a lot of vetrans on that team who know how things work Nevin, Klesko, Giles and all. Greene is doing well but just because his team is in the race you can't give him the award and you can't eliminate Bay just because his team isn't contending.

[Sully]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

A.L.
Victor Martinez, Indians

N.L.
Khalil Greene, Padres

Runners up:
A.L.
Bobby Crosby, A's

N.L.
Jason Bay, Pirates

Not Victor...he's not eligible.

AL is Bobby Crosby hands down. If Justin Morneau didn't get called up so late, he'd be in the running.

NL is tough. The Pads record, combined with Greene's defense, make him hard to argue against, but you have to go with Jason Bay. His numbers are just too good to overlook.

[Sully]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

A.L.
Victor Martinez, Indians

N.L.
Khalil Greene, Padres

Runners up:
A.L.
Bobby Crosby, A's

N.L.
Jason Bay, Pirates

Not Victor...he's not eligible.

AL is Bobby Crosby hands down. If Justin Morneau didn't get called up so late, he'd be in the running.

NL is tough. The Pads record, combined with Greene's defense, make him hard to argue against, but you have to go with Jason Bay. His numbers are just too good to overlook.

[Sully]

Re: Who is your pick for rookie of the year?

A.L.
Victor Martinez, Indians

N.L.
Khalil Greene, Padres

Runners up:
A.L.
Bobby Crosby, A's

N.L.
Jason Bay, Pirates

Not Victor...he's not eligible.

AL is Bobby Crosby hands down. If Justin Morneau didn't get called up so late, he'd be in the running.

NL is tough. The Pads record, combined with Greene's defense, make him hard to argue against, but you have to go with Jason Bay. His numbers are just too good to overlook.