7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

[Speedy]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Look at concussions in the NFL...that was an epidemic that the NFL knew what was causing it and finally addressed it.

Same with these elbow injuries. NFL QBs throw probably the same during the week with a heavier ball so why do we not see elbow injuries with them? Because they're not throwing it as hard as possible.

SPTO is right -- it's velocity more than repetition. What if MLB got rid of radar guns in all MLB/MiLB stadiums? What if MLB found a way to force little leagues to reduce their year-round schedule (and this stupid travel ball that's year long)? It could only help, right?

Jim Kaat said something that just stuck with me...he said he'd play IF on days he wasn't pitching. So he'd be at SS during batting practice throwing to the 1B. He finally realized after he retired that it kept his arm loose and durable but again, he wasn't maxing out on every pitch. A curveball at 76 can still be maxed out with such torque and force.

IDK...exhaustive studies, research provided to teams/little leagues. Something has to be done.

[Jr.]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Look at concussions in the NFL...that was an epidemic that the NFL knew what was causing it and finally addressed it.

Same with these elbow injuries. NFL QBs throw probably the same during the week with a heavier ball so why do we not see elbow injuries with them? Because they're not throwing it as hard as possible.

SPTO is right -- it's velocity more than repetition. What if MLB got rid of radar guns in all MLB/MiLB stadiums? What if MLB found a way to force little leagues to reduce their year-round schedule (and this stupid travel ball that's year long)? It could only help, right?

Jim Kaat said something that just stuck with me...he said he'd play IF on days he wasn't pitching. So he'd be at SS during batting practice throwing to the 1B. He finally realized after he retired that it kept his arm loose and durable but again, he wasn't maxing out on every pitch. A curveball at 76 can still be maxed out with such torque and force.

IDK...exhaustive studies, research provided to teams/little leagues. Something has to be done.

MLB can't do anything about the youth leagues. There are so many of them, the man power to try to oversee them all would be insane. And a lot of the travel teams aren't even in leagues, they just play a ton of tournaments.

I actually think guys playing the field and pitching is another cause of injury. It don't think it keeps the arm loose, I think it keeps the arm from being able to recover. You go out and throw 75 pitches, then play the field the next 2-3 days, your arm never really gets a chance to recover and heal.

I don't know enough about NFL practices to compare QBs to pitchers, but I know in a game that's played once per week (as opposed to every 5-6 days) and less than 25 times per year max (as opposed to close to 50 in baseball, not counting bullpens) where they might throw a football 50 times, tops, with max effort on maybe 10 of those... it's not nearly the same as a pitcher's workload in a game.

[Speedy]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

I don't know enough about NFL practices to compare QBs to pitchers, but I know in a game that's played once per week (as opposed to every 5-6 days) and less than 25 times per year max (as opposed to close to 50 in baseball, not counting bullpens) where they might throw a football 50 times, tops, with max effort on maybe 10 of those... it's not nearly the same as a pitcher's workload in a game.

I'd think it's similar with a pitcher's workload being they practice Tuesday-Saturday then the game on Sunday.

But the point was more so about max effort; only guy I recall putting max effort on footballs was Favre but that wasn't all the time.

Throwing 92 with control is better than 98 in my mind; Verlander could throw 100 consistently in his early days but stayed at like 94-95 thru the entire game and only reached back when needed.

[Jr.]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

I'd think it's similar with a pitcher's workload being they practice Tuesday-Saturday then the game on Sunday.

But the point was more so about max effort; only guy I recall putting max effort on footballs was Favre but that wasn't all the time.

Throwing 92 with control is better than 98 in my mind; Verlander could throw 100 consistently in his early days but stayed at like 94-95 thru the entire game and only reached back when needed.

Pitchers probably throw as much during the week before games as QBs do in practice, I would guess. They probably take 1 day off, then they're back in their routine. Besides, a pitcher is going 90+ pitches at game intensity twice per week.. QBs don't come close to that.

92 with control isn't as easy as it sounds. I know I was never able to dial down with any kind of consistency because my mechanics would break down. You use what got you to that point, and that's velocity for the vast majority of pitchers.

Just look at Verlander now. He doesn't have 94-95 anymore, much less upper 90s, and now he's a below-average pitcher at 90-92. He's having to learn how to pitch at that velocity and it's taking him a while.

[Majingir]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

LaTroy Hawkins possibly making Jays debut tonight. Speaking of Hawkins and debuts...when he made his MLB debut,this was the #1 song on the charts:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0hiUuL5uTKc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And this movie just came out:


And Dave Winfield was still an active player in the majors, and Roberto Osuno(his teammate on Jays now) was 2.5 months old.

[Speedy]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Why I love OS...such mature discussions.

Good points, Jr -- I think pitchers need to learn how to pitch at different velocities. 1-2 mph difference can mean months or even years of life to an arm.

[Jr.]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Why I love OS...such mature discussions.

Good points, Jr -- I think pitchers need to learn how to pitch at different velocities. 1-2 mph difference can mean months or even years of life to an arm.

Absolutely agree with this. Proper mechanics go a long way, too. It's painful watching some of these guys throw.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Look at concussions in the NFL...that was an epidemic that the NFL knew what was causing it and finally addressed it.

Same with these elbow injuries. NFL QBs throw probably the same during the week with a heavier ball so why do we not see elbow injuries with them? Because they're not throwing it as hard as possible.

SPTO is right -- it's velocity more than repetition. What if MLB got rid of radar guns in all MLB/MiLB stadiums? What if MLB found a way to force little leagues to reduce their year-round schedule (and this stupid travel ball that's year long)? It could only help, right?

Jim Kaat said something that just stuck with me...he said he'd play IF on days he wasn't pitching. So he'd be at SS during batting practice throwing to the 1B. He finally realized after he retired that it kept his arm loose and durable but again, he wasn't maxing out on every pitch. A curveball at 76 can still be maxed out with such torque and force.

IDK...exhaustive studies, research provided to teams/little leagues. Something has to be done.

I think injury prevention using pitching biomechanics is the next step in the baseball information revolution.

Eventually, some smart medical people will figure out that throwing a baseball from a certain angle and with a certain torque is bad for the elbow.

[SPTO]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Absolutely agree with this. Proper mechanics go a long way, too. It's painful watching some of these guys throw.

Yeah you see some of these guys throwing and just cringe. I just wish pitching coaches in the minors and the major league levels could actually do COACHING rather than managing innings and being armchair psychiatrists.

[Jr.]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Yeah you see some of these guys throwing and just cringe. I just wish pitching coaches in the minors and the major league levels could actually do COACHING rather than managing innings and being armchair psychiatrists.

I'd be interested to see how many actually try to make major mechanical changes to a kid in the minors. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a ton of resistance by the player, and even by the front office. Guys that I've known that played minor league ball all say the coaching they get is on the mental side and pitch grips more than anything. They might have slight mechanical changes, but nothing drastic.

[SPTO]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

I'd be interested to see how many actually try to make major mechanical changes to a kid in the minors. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a ton of resistance by the player, and even by the front office. Guys that I've known that played minor league ball all say the coaching they get is on the mental side and pitch grips more than anything. They might have slight mechanical changes, but nothing drastic.

I know Pete Walker has done subtle mechanical things with some of the young Blue Jays pitchers sometimes to great effect and other times it hasn't worked at all. The last guy I can think of that totally overhauled his mechanics completely was Roy Halladay.

[Master Live 013]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Here, chill pills for everyone. So a guy might get TJ, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, perhaps MLB should provide some suggested guidelines for little leagues. Throw their weight around a little bit regarding high school and college baseball.

Lets put some money behind longitudinal research.

But Tommy John surgery is here to stay.

Taking radar guns out stadiums? Give me a break.

Inhale and exhale.

[Jr.]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

I know Pete Walker has done subtle mechanical things with some of the young Blue Jays pitchers sometimes to great effect and other times it hasn't worked at all. The last guy I can think of that totally overhauled his mechanics completely was Roy Halladay.

Kazmir made some decent changes in his mechanics before his comeback 2 years ago. Upped his velocity, but I'm not sure about the impact on his arm.

[LowerWolf]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Crash Davis is on pace for a nine-homer game. He's got two through two innings.

[19]

Re: 7/17 - 8/2 Game Discussion Thread

Chris Davis 5, Barves 2.