Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
Pirates Reportedly “Motivated” To Move Gerrit Cole; Yankees Remain In Play
Pirates Reportedly “Motivated” To Move Gerrit Cole; Yankees Remain In Play
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
Would be wild to see Cole end up with the Yankees after all this. For those not aware he was originally selected in the first round by the Yankees, but opted to play for UCLA.
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
Diamondbacks Close To Deal With Yoshihisa HiranoOakland A's - Seattle Mariners - Detroit TigersPittsburgh Steelers - Green Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsComment
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Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan WolverinesComment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
Yes, definitely agree!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Operation Sports mobile appMilwaukee Brewers | Green Bay Packers | North Carolina Tar Heels | Wisconsin BadgersComment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
Seems like if the Yankees include Gleyber Torres a deal could be close, possibly by Christmas. The Yankees are reportedly offering Clint Frazier+ and we'll see where this goes and another team might step in.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Source says Yankees-Pirates talks re: Gerrit Cole trade are "getting hot," though it's unclear whether a deal is imminent.</p>— Mark Feinsand (@Feinsand) <a href="https://twitter.com/Feinsand/status/944039240870096901?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 22, 2017</a></blockquote>Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan WolverinesComment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
Cole isn’t even worth Frazier, nevermind Torres, that’s just a joke. Cole isn’t that great in my opinion. It would be much smarter to go with what they have if they won’t sign Cobb. Keep the prospects for now, let things play out. See what the situation and needs are at the Trade Deadline and make a move for what is needed most then.
Sending Torres back for Cole would be the worst move and biggest mistake since the Ellsbury signing. Tanaka, Severino, CC, Gray, and Montgomery are a fine group to go with. Chance Adams is their as well.Last edited by Rocket32; 12-21-2017, 11:56 PM.Comment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
I'm 1000000000% here for the Yankees trading either Frazier or preferably Torres for Gerrit Cole.Comment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
If for whatever reason theyre dumb enough to trade Torres, I fully expect Moustakas to sign there quickly afterOakland A's - Seattle Mariners - Detroit TigersPittsburgh Steelers - Green Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsComment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
Cole is definitely worth Clint Frazier, who has not really had the minor league production to match his massive hype. He's a tools before production type. I question his ability to play good defense. I question his ability to develop strike zone discipline....or to bash enough to make up for likely poor discipline. Frazier reminds me of Javy Baez without the sizzle on defense, but as an outfielder. As much hype as Baez has gotten, he's yet to post a 3 WAR season.
On the other hand, you are probably spending $150-200MM over 7/8 years on the free agent market to get a pitcher like Gerrit Cole at his skill level and age. You can expect 3-5 WAR seasons from Cole for the better part of a decade and I doubt Frazier ever gets into that range. He's also got the type of stuff you can go to war with in the playoffs. 5 pitches (4SM, 2SM, CH, CB, SL), high-90s fastball with well above average movement, and one of the better control pitchers in the game.
If people are saying Cole is not worth Frazier, that's the prospect Kool-Aid talking, imo.Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan WolverinesComment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
I think Cole has all the tools to be a future Cy Young type but I can't see it being done in the pressure cooker of the Bronx. I know everybody goes crazy for analytics and such but this is where the eye test and plain ol' psychology comes in. Cole is still trying to find his way towards a pitch combination that can be dominant most of the time and trying to find your way in the Bronx when you cost the team one of its most prized prospects is a BAD combination. It would be the A.J. Burnett experience in Toronto writ large. He may end up with a winning record but the other numbers aren't the greatest. He will wow you for a stretch and then put up a few stinkers.
As someone who cheers for another team in the same division I would welcome such a trade and experience schadenfreude over Yankees fans' displeasure.Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club
"Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. ParkerComment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
There's no way in hell Torres will be involved. No reason to worry about that Rocket.
Frazier I'd like to keep. But, I could part with him. I think getting Cole would be a great addition to an already strong rotation. This guy has frontline stuff. But he doesn't have to be the Ace.
Frazier is a nice talent. But I just feel like the outfield isn't a big concern. I trust Cash though. If he likes Cole. Then I'm gonna trust in it. He's been money on his moves lately and a big reason he was named Executive of the year.
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
I'm still trying to figure out why the Pirates are so "motivated" to trade a guy who's supposedly a near ace with 2 years left of control.Originally posted by G PericoComment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
So they don't get stuck in a Manny Machado situation. There's been a lot of reports they are looking to rebuild (or re-tool) and Gerrit Cole would bring the best return on the team I believe.
That's my guess at least, they see the writing on the wall and want to maximize return now as opposed to getting less when he only has 1 season of control left.Comment
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Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread
Disclaimer: I'm using really simple math here.
Cole has two years left of arbitration until he hits FA. While I don't know where they will land for sure, lets say 20 M total for two years. Over his career so far, he has been worth about 3 WAR per year, so lets say about 25 M per year of value. This would mean Cole has a surplus value of 30 M over the remnants of his contract, assuming he does not improve at all. If he was to put up 5.5 WAR seasons like he did in 2015, then he's worth 70 M in surplus and demands a much bigger kind of return. What is Cole actually worth in surplus value? 50M?
Torres just turned 21, and laid waste at AAA next year. He's be a centerpiece of a surefire ace kind of deal, and his surplus value is closer to 60 M, based on this article:
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/valu...100-prospects/
Take it with a grain of salt. Each team is going to value players differently. The valuation takes into account the chance that they end up busting, all the way to a Judge-like season where the player doubles up on his prospect value in 1 year.
By the same article, Frazier is worth about 38 M. Due to Cole's upside, I'd figure he's be a fair centerpiece for Cole. Him, and a few lower level prospects, and you might have a deal. Alternatively, the Pirates may decide they want to spread out their risk (or don't like Frazier), and ask for a Sheffield, Mateo and Adams or something like that.
At the end of the day, based on what the Pirate's payroll limitations are, they're in a position where they are always listening on their guys. At this point, both teams are probably just doing their due diligence.
This is why I didn't mind the Marlins' return on Ozuna. Ozuna isn't as good as Cole, and he's owned more through arbitration. Through the above estimations, the Marlins got about 40 M in prospect value, which is reasonable. On the other hand, this same calculation would lend the return on Dee Gordon as low, and we'll save the Stanton deal for another day.Comment
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