Why are steroids so bad?

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  • glucklich
    Banned
    • Jun 2004
    • 4272

    #16
    Re: Why are steroids so bad?

    Originally posted by CWood2
    Some would argue (as Pete Rose would now) that gambling is a sickness like alcoholism or a chemical imbalance that causes depression. With steroids, you're making a choice to cheat, to take a short cut in your training, and to inflate your stats if it all works in your favor. There was an outrage over that head coach who lied about his resume, yet Giambi still has $80 million coming his way and he did the same thing...misrepresent himself to the Yankees and cash in because of it.
    Is it really a shortcut more than a supplement? This is my point, how someone views it is pretty arbitrary and especailly when they take a stance on it. You wonder how much of the reaction is conditioning. In football they have tested for it and it has been an issue longer than it has in baseball. The sport of football is different however due to the physicality of it. Conceivably someone could get injured by another player who is on steroids because he is on steroids. This is not really the case in baseball. Players still have to have the hand eye coordination to hit a baseball so is it cheating or an improvement especially since baseball took a nonstance on it?
    Last edited by glucklich; 02-14-2005, 01:51 PM.

    Comment

    • glucklich
      Banned
      • Jun 2004
      • 4272

      #17
      Re: Why are steroids so bad?

      Originally posted by CWood2
      Some would argue (as Pete Rose would now) that gambling is a sickness like alcoholism or a chemical imbalance that causes depression. With steroids, you're making a choice to cheat, to take a short cut in your training, and to inflate your stats if it all works in your favor. There was an outrage over that head coach who lied about his resume, yet Giambi still has $80 million coming his way and he did the same thing...misrepresent himself to the Yankees and cash in because of it.
      Is it really a shortcut more than a supplement? This is my point, how someone views it is pretty arbitrary and especailly when they take a stance on it. You wonder how much of the reaction is conditioning. In football they have tested for it and it has been an issue longer than it has in baseball. The sport of football is different however due to the physicality of it. Conceivably someone could get injured by another player who is on steroids because he is on steroids. This is not really the case in baseball. Players still have to have the hand eye coordination to hit a baseball so is it cheating or an improvement especially since baseball took a nonstance on it?

      Comment

      • glucklich
        Banned
        • Jun 2004
        • 4272

        #18
        Re: Why are steroids so bad?

        Originally posted by Vyce3
        No much more the fact that using these is like cheating. EVEN if it is true that everyone use them. It's just not the way sports should be played.
        Let me ask you then, is it more acceptable for players to play while on painkillers (eg cortizone)?

        Comment

        • glucklich
          Banned
          • Jun 2004
          • 4272

          #19
          Re: Why are steroids so bad?

          Originally posted by Vyce3
          No much more the fact that using these is like cheating. EVEN if it is true that everyone use them. It's just not the way sports should be played.
          Let me ask you then, is it more acceptable for players to play while on painkillers (eg cortizone)?

          Comment

          • Jimplication
            MVP
            • Aug 2004
            • 3591

            #20
            Re: Why are steroids so bad?

            Originally posted by Vyce3
            No much more the fact that using these is like cheating. EVEN if it is true that everyone use them. It's just not the way sports should be played.
            Where do you draw the line at though?

            There are players that take supplements that are legal, and not considered steroids, yet they must provide some benefit for players to be taking them. Are players that take these supplements cheating?

            Current players are much more conditioned and have access to much better trainers and nutritionists than players fifty years ago did. By taking advantage of this, are today's players cheating?

            Where is the line drawn that clearly distinguishes which players are legit and which are cheating?
            Enjoy football? Enjoy Goal Line Blitz!

            Comment

            • Jimplication
              MVP
              • Aug 2004
              • 3591

              #21
              Re: Why are steroids so bad?

              Originally posted by Vyce3
              No much more the fact that using these is like cheating. EVEN if it is true that everyone use them. It's just not the way sports should be played.
              Where do you draw the line at though?

              There are players that take supplements that are legal, and not considered steroids, yet they must provide some benefit for players to be taking them. Are players that take these supplements cheating?

              Current players are much more conditioned and have access to much better trainers and nutritionists than players fifty years ago did. By taking advantage of this, are today's players cheating?

              Where is the line drawn that clearly distinguishes which players are legit and which are cheating?
              Enjoy football? Enjoy Goal Line Blitz!

              Comment

              • MSRoble33
                MVP
                • Aug 2002
                • 1840

                #22
                Re: Why are steroids so bad?

                Originally posted by glucklich
                But as long as they know there might be consequences is it really a problem?
                Yes, it is... basically you're putting into the hands of kids:

                a) you can take steroids, get good and make money, but remember, steroids will hurt you..

                b) You can NOT take steroids, maybe not be good, maybe NOT make the big contract, but hey, at least you're playing baseball...

                Kids nowadays will quickly go for Option A.
                • They'll see both options involve a baseball (or sports in general) career.
                • They'll see that there is a "window" of success and will do whatever it takes to become successful in that window and after making that window, they'll continue to "stretch the window" for as long as they possibly can.
                • They'll also see that all the "longterm severe" consequences of steroids will occur later in life and think, "so what, by the time I'm that age, chances are good that something will be wrong with me anyway."
                none of these viewpoints are good, but it is what will probably run through young player's thought processes.

                Comment

                • MSRoble33
                  MVP
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 1840

                  #23
                  Re: Why are steroids so bad?

                  Originally posted by glucklich
                  But as long as they know there might be consequences is it really a problem?
                  Yes, it is... basically you're putting into the hands of kids:

                  a) you can take steroids, get good and make money, but remember, steroids will hurt you..

                  b) You can NOT take steroids, maybe not be good, maybe NOT make the big contract, but hey, at least you're playing baseball...

                  Kids nowadays will quickly go for Option A.
                  • They'll see both options involve a baseball (or sports in general) career.
                  • They'll see that there is a "window" of success and will do whatever it takes to become successful in that window and after making that window, they'll continue to "stretch the window" for as long as they possibly can.
                  • They'll also see that all the "longterm severe" consequences of steroids will occur later in life and think, "so what, by the time I'm that age, chances are good that something will be wrong with me anyway."
                  none of these viewpoints are good, but it is what will probably run through young player's thought processes.

                  Comment

                  • glucklich
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 4272

                    #24
                    Re: Why are steroids so bad?

                    Originally posted by MSRoble33
                    Yes, it is... basically you're putting into the hands of kids:

                    a) you can take steroids, get good and make money, but remember, steroids will hurt you..

                    b) You can NOT take steroids, maybe not be good, maybe NOT make the big contract, but hey, at least you're playing baseball...

                    Kids nowadays will quickly go for Option A.
                    • They'll see both options involve a baseball (or sports in general) career.
                    • They'll see that there is a "window" of success and will do whatever it takes to become successful in that window and after making that window, they'll continue to "stretch the window" for as long as they possibly can.
                    • They'll also see that all the "longterm severe" consequences of steroids will occur later in life and think, "so what, by the time I'm that age, chances are good that something will be wrong with me anyway."
                    none of these viewpoints are good, but it is what will probably run through young player's thought processes.
                    I dont advocate taking them before 18. That would cause a problem in contact sports especially. I dont even really think they belong in professional sports that are contact sports but baseball is another story and when a kid turns 18 then hes an adult is he not?

                    Comment

                    • glucklich
                      Banned
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 4272

                      #25
                      Re: Why are steroids so bad?

                      Originally posted by MSRoble33
                      Yes, it is... basically you're putting into the hands of kids:

                      a) you can take steroids, get good and make money, but remember, steroids will hurt you..

                      b) You can NOT take steroids, maybe not be good, maybe NOT make the big contract, but hey, at least you're playing baseball...

                      Kids nowadays will quickly go for Option A.
                      • They'll see both options involve a baseball (or sports in general) career.
                      • They'll see that there is a "window" of success and will do whatever it takes to become successful in that window and after making that window, they'll continue to "stretch the window" for as long as they possibly can.
                      • They'll also see that all the "longterm severe" consequences of steroids will occur later in life and think, "so what, by the time I'm that age, chances are good that something will be wrong with me anyway."
                      none of these viewpoints are good, but it is what will probably run through young player's thought processes.
                      I dont advocate taking them before 18. That would cause a problem in contact sports especially. I dont even really think they belong in professional sports that are contact sports but baseball is another story and when a kid turns 18 then hes an adult is he not?

                      Comment

                      • MSRoble33
                        MVP
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 1840

                        #26
                        Re: Why are steroids so bad?

                        Originally posted by glucklich
                        I dont advocate taking them before 18. That would cause a problem in contact sports especially. I dont even really think they belong in professional sports that are contact sports but baseball is another story and when a kid turns 18 then hes an adult is he not?
                        I get what you're saying, and I understand you're viewpoint here is purely a case of "playing Devil's Advocate".. This CAN be spun as "it's not different than putting a warning label on a pack of cigarettes."

                        Personally, I could care less if these guys use 'roids or not... that's entirely THEIR lives that's being impacted, not mine. But I'm 30 and my life choices have been made and stuck to.

                        As far as the age restriction goes, how would YOU prevent pre-18-year olds from taking it? Pre-18's smoke cigarettes, pot, the drink, and we got laws "preventing" those situations. The fact that you'd limit it to an age, THEN to contact or non-contact sports really will cause a tidal wave of problems.

                        Football player: "Why can these baseball players take this and not me? I don't care, I'm taking it anyway."

                        Pre-18-year old baseball player: "Why can my teammate (a senior) that's only a year older than me take them and I can't? i'm a junior and I REALLY want to get a good scholarship to a big school so I can get drafted by a good MLB team and make some serious money."

                        Sports stars make everything seem glorified. Whether we like it or not, or if we think it sohuld or not, it just does.

                        Comment

                        • MSRoble33
                          MVP
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 1840

                          #27
                          Re: Why are steroids so bad?

                          Originally posted by glucklich
                          I dont advocate taking them before 18. That would cause a problem in contact sports especially. I dont even really think they belong in professional sports that are contact sports but baseball is another story and when a kid turns 18 then hes an adult is he not?
                          I get what you're saying, and I understand you're viewpoint here is purely a case of "playing Devil's Advocate".. This CAN be spun as "it's not different than putting a warning label on a pack of cigarettes."

                          Personally, I could care less if these guys use 'roids or not... that's entirely THEIR lives that's being impacted, not mine. But I'm 30 and my life choices have been made and stuck to.

                          As far as the age restriction goes, how would YOU prevent pre-18-year olds from taking it? Pre-18's smoke cigarettes, pot, the drink, and we got laws "preventing" those situations. The fact that you'd limit it to an age, THEN to contact or non-contact sports really will cause a tidal wave of problems.

                          Football player: "Why can these baseball players take this and not me? I don't care, I'm taking it anyway."

                          Pre-18-year old baseball player: "Why can my teammate (a senior) that's only a year older than me take them and I can't? i'm a junior and I REALLY want to get a good scholarship to a big school so I can get drafted by a good MLB team and make some serious money."

                          Sports stars make everything seem glorified. Whether we like it or not, or if we think it sohuld or not, it just does.

                          Comment

                          • glucklich
                            Banned
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 4272

                            #28
                            Re: Why are steroids so bad?

                            Originally posted by MSRoble33

                            As far as the age restriction goes, how would YOU prevent pre-18-year olds from taking it? Pre-18's smoke cigarettes, pot, the drink, and we got laws "preventing" those situations. The fact that you'd limit it to an age, THEN to contact or non-contact sports really will cause a tidal wave of problems.

                            Football player: "Why can these baseball players take this and not me? I don't care, I'm taking it anyway."

                            Pre-18-year old baseball player: "Why can my teammate (a senior) that's only a year older than me take them and I can't? i'm a junior and I REALLY want to get a good scholarship to a big school so I can get drafted by a good MLB team and make some serious money."

                            Sports stars make everything seem glorified. Whether we like it or not, or if we think it sohuld or not, it just does.
                            You would test them in HS sports. I know I said 18 and thats true but in the interest of what you said, they should be prohibited in HS. When a guy leaves HS however, then hes really in the adult world.
                            Last edited by glucklich; 02-14-2005, 02:32 PM.

                            Comment

                            • glucklich
                              Banned
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 4272

                              #29
                              Re: Why are steroids so bad?

                              Originally posted by MSRoble33

                              As far as the age restriction goes, how would YOU prevent pre-18-year olds from taking it? Pre-18's smoke cigarettes, pot, the drink, and we got laws "preventing" those situations. The fact that you'd limit it to an age, THEN to contact or non-contact sports really will cause a tidal wave of problems.

                              Football player: "Why can these baseball players take this and not me? I don't care, I'm taking it anyway."

                              Pre-18-year old baseball player: "Why can my teammate (a senior) that's only a year older than me take them and I can't? i'm a junior and I REALLY want to get a good scholarship to a big school so I can get drafted by a good MLB team and make some serious money."

                              Sports stars make everything seem glorified. Whether we like it or not, or if we think it sohuld or not, it just does.
                              You would test them in HS sports. I know I said 18 and thats true but in the interest of what you said, they should be prohibited in HS. When a guy leaves HS however, then hes really in the adult world.

                              Comment

                              • MSRoble33
                                MVP
                                • Aug 2002
                                • 1840

                                #30
                                Re: Why are steroids so bad?

                                Originally posted by glucklich
                                You would test them in HS sports. I know I said 18 and thats true but in the interest of what you said, they should be prohibited in HS. When a guy leaves HS however, then hes really in the adult world.
                                Not neccessarily... you're not even in the "adult world" when you're in college... most college kids are still on mommy and daddy's health/life insurance. They do not have jobs good enough (or the hours enough) to get good health benefits..

                                but anyway... testing them will do what? All this steroids talk has done was shown us that the cream and the clear is undetectable.. these kids in high school see this. And they'll use that information to benefit themselves. Therefore you are setting forth a rule with no "real" plan to enforce.

                                Junior goes into the summer at 5'9 180 lbs... he comes back in the fall at 5'9 235lbs of solid muscle.. you test him, he turns up negative because he took the cream and clear like Sheff and Bonds took and what're you going to do?

                                "Oh shucks, I guess he's clean guys...."

                                Then the landslide begins... he goes up to a sophomore, "hey man, you want an edge? They've tested me umpteen times for the stuff and it never shows up on a test, AND it works wonders."

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