Why are steroids so bad?

[MSRoble33]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

You would test them in HS sports. I know I said 18 and thats true but in the interest of what you said, they should be prohibited in HS. When a guy leaves HS however, then hes really in the adult world.

Not neccessarily... you're not even in the "adult world" when you're in college... most college kids are still on mommy and daddy's health/life insurance. They do not have jobs good enough (or the hours enough) to get good health benefits..

but anyway... testing them will do what? All this steroids talk has done was shown us that the cream and the clear is undetectable.. these kids in high school see this. And they'll use that information to benefit themselves. Therefore you are setting forth a rule with no "real" plan to enforce.

Junior goes into the summer at 5'9 180 lbs... he comes back in the fall at 5'9 235lbs of solid muscle.. you test him, he turns up negative because he took the cream and clear like Sheff and Bonds took and what're you going to do?

"Oh shucks, I guess he's clean guys...."

Then the landslide begins... he goes up to a sophomore, "hey man, you want an edge? They've tested me umpteen times for the stuff and it never shows up on a test, AND it works wonders."

[glucklich]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Not neccessarily... you're not even in the "adult world" when you're in college... most college kids are still on mommy and daddy's health/life insurance. They do not have jobs good enough (or the hours enough) to get good health benefits..

but anyway... testing them will do what? All this steroids talk has done was shown us that the cream and the clear is undetectable.. these kids in high school see this. And they'll use that information to benefit themselves. Therefore you are setting forth a rule with no "real" plan to enforce.

Junior goes into the summer at 5'9 180 lbs... he comes back in the fall at 5'9 235lbs of solid muscle.. you test him, he turns up negative because he took the cream and clear like Sheff and Bonds took and what're you going to do?

"Oh shucks, I guess he's clean guys...."

Then the landslide begins... he goes up to a sophomore, "hey man, you want an edge? They've tested me umpteen times for the stuff and it never shows up on a test, AND it works wonders."

Let the HS deal with it how it wants. My prevailing point is that its a personal decision and at some point you have to let people make their own decisions and also that someones reaction as a fan is kind of offbase to say this is bad for X, Y and Z reason and never reconcile that they think cortizone is OK when it serves a similar purpose in that it helps the player perform as if he wasnt injured (better than he could otherwise).

[glucklich]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Not neccessarily... you're not even in the "adult world" when you're in college... most college kids are still on mommy and daddy's health/life insurance. They do not have jobs good enough (or the hours enough) to get good health benefits..

but anyway... testing them will do what? All this steroids talk has done was shown us that the cream and the clear is undetectable.. these kids in high school see this. And they'll use that information to benefit themselves. Therefore you are setting forth a rule with no "real" plan to enforce.

Junior goes into the summer at 5'9 180 lbs... he comes back in the fall at 5'9 235lbs of solid muscle.. you test him, he turns up negative because he took the cream and clear like Sheff and Bonds took and what're you going to do?

"Oh shucks, I guess he's clean guys...."

Then the landslide begins... he goes up to a sophomore, "hey man, you want an edge? They've tested me umpteen times for the stuff and it never shows up on a test, AND it works wonders."

Let the HS deal with it how it wants. My prevailing point is that its a personal decision and at some point you have to let people make their own decisions and also that someones reaction as a fan is kind of offbase to say this is bad for X, Y and Z reason and never reconcile that they think cortizone is OK when it serves a similar purpose in that it helps the player perform as if he wasnt injured (better than he could otherwise).

[Heelfan71]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Because when certain players are using it, other players feel like they Have to do it to remain competitive. It's their job to play baseball. Canseco would not have been as good with out them, even he admits it. It gives guys an unfair advantage.

[Heelfan71]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Because when certain players are using it, other players feel like they Have to do it to remain competitive. It's their job to play baseball. Canseco would not have been as good with out them, even he admits it. It gives guys an unfair advantage.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Let the HS deal with it how it wants. My prevailing point is that its a personal decision and at some point you have to let people make their own decisions and also that someones reaction as a fan is kind of offbase to say this is bad for X, Y and Z reason and never reconcile that they think cortizone is OK when it serves a similar purpose in that it helps the player perform as if he wasnt injured (better than he could otherwise).

It's a personal decision alright, one that people are making it almost impossible to say no to, for the reason Heelfan mentioned.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Let the HS deal with it how it wants. My prevailing point is that its a personal decision and at some point you have to let people make their own decisions and also that someones reaction as a fan is kind of offbase to say this is bad for X, Y and Z reason and never reconcile that they think cortizone is OK when it serves a similar purpose in that it helps the player perform as if he wasnt injured (better than he could otherwise).

It's a personal decision alright, one that people are making it almost impossible to say no to, for the reason Heelfan mentioned.

[glucklich]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Because when certain players are using it, other players feel like they Have to do it to remain competitive. It's their job to play baseball. Canseco would not have been as good with out them, even he admits it. It gives guys an unfair advantage.

Thats the most valid argument and that is why Im most pulled the other way, but then I go back and forth...why should those guys be protected? Its not a right to play baseball...you play if your good enough and if someone is good enough because he doesnt mind the risks then whats the problem? I realize it would be nice to go through life without confronting ones priorities but, again, its an arbitrary exercise.

[glucklich]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Because when certain players are using it, other players feel like they Have to do it to remain competitive. It's their job to play baseball. Canseco would not have been as good with out them, even he admits it. It gives guys an unfair advantage.

Thats the most valid argument and that is why Im most pulled the other way, but then I go back and forth...why should those guys be protected? Its not a right to play baseball...you play if your good enough and if someone is good enough because he doesnt mind the risks then whats the problem? I realize it would be nice to go through life without confronting ones priorities but, again, its an arbitrary exercise.

[CWood2]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Thats the most valid argument and that is why Im most pulled the other way, but then I go back and forth...why should those guys be protected? Its not a right to play baseball...you play if your good enough and if someone is good enough because he doesnt mind the risks then whats the problem? I realize it would be nice to go through life without confronting ones priorities but, again, its an arbitrary exercise.

I think you're forgetting something...it's ILLEGAL!!! Unless you want to legalize marijuana as well, I'm not sure what the debate is about. If you think things like Andro should be legal, that's another story, but steroids are illegal enhancements. If I take pain killers as I did for my shoulder injury my senior season, I was not a better player than before I got tendanitus. I was just better able to play through the pain.

Like HeelFan said, their is a culture in baseball so competitive that you begin to fall behind if you make the poor decision of cheating (by definition since you're breaking the rules) and taking illegal substances. My best friend is a pro pitcher who played in the Frontier League last year and some of the stories are scary. He could do a cycle in the offseason, come back throwing in the high 90's instead of the low 90's, and scouts would drool over him. You get paid jack-crap in these leagues and with all the talent waiting to be discovered, why wouldn't you juice? Well he didn't and does not, but not everyone can make that choice.

It'll only get worse too, as kids will relate getting into a D1 college as a quicker way to get noticed and set themselves up to be drafted. I live a town over from Peabody, MA where their coach of about 18 years was fired after exposing a pattern of substance abuse after Jeff Allison (of Peabody High) was drafted by the Marlins and sent home for his addiction to OC's. We all knew a lot of those kids juiced every spring when we played them and now it was made public, so the problem is worse than you think.

[CWood2]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Thats the most valid argument and that is why Im most pulled the other way, but then I go back and forth...why should those guys be protected? Its not a right to play baseball...you play if your good enough and if someone is good enough because he doesnt mind the risks then whats the problem? I realize it would be nice to go through life without confronting ones priorities but, again, its an arbitrary exercise.

I think you're forgetting something...it's ILLEGAL!!! Unless you want to legalize marijuana as well, I'm not sure what the debate is about. If you think things like Andro should be legal, that's another story, but steroids are illegal enhancements. If I take pain killers as I did for my shoulder injury my senior season, I was not a better player than before I got tendanitus. I was just better able to play through the pain.

Like HeelFan said, their is a culture in baseball so competitive that you begin to fall behind if you make the poor decision of cheating (by definition since you're breaking the rules) and taking illegal substances. My best friend is a pro pitcher who played in the Frontier League last year and some of the stories are scary. He could do a cycle in the offseason, come back throwing in the high 90's instead of the low 90's, and scouts would drool over him. You get paid jack-crap in these leagues and with all the talent waiting to be discovered, why wouldn't you juice? Well he didn't and does not, but not everyone can make that choice.

It'll only get worse too, as kids will relate getting into a D1 college as a quicker way to get noticed and set themselves up to be drafted. I live a town over from Peabody, MA where their coach of about 18 years was fired after exposing a pattern of substance abuse after Jeff Allison (of Peabody High) was drafted by the Marlins and sent home for his addiction to OC's. We all knew a lot of those kids juiced every spring when we played them and now it was made public, so the problem is worse than you think.

[glucklich]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

I think you're forgetting something...it's ILLEGAL!!! Unless you want to legalize marijuana as well, I'm not sure what the debate is about. If you think things like Andro should be legal, that's another story, but steroids are illegal enhancements. If I take pain killers as I did for my shoulder injury my senior season, I was not a better player than before I got tendanitus. I was just better able to play through the pain.

Like HeelFan said, their is a culture in baseball so competitive that you begin to fall behind if you make the poor decision of cheating (by definition since you're breaking the rules) and taking illegal substances. My best friend is a pro pitcher who played in the Frontier League last year and some of the stories are scary. He could do a cycle in the offseason, come back throwing in the high 90's instead of the low 90's, and scouts would drool over him. You get paid jack-crap in these leagues and with all the talent waiting to be discovered, why wouldn't you juice? Well he didn't and does not, but not everyone can make that choice.

It'll only get worse too, as kids will relate getting into a D1 college as a quicker way to get noticed and set themselves up to be drafted. I live a town over from Peabody, MA where their coach of about 18 years was fired after exposing a pattern of substance abuse after Jeff Allison (of Peabody High) was drafted by the Marlins and sent home for his addiction to OC's. We all knew a lot of those kids juiced every spring when we played them and now it was made public, so the problem is worse than you think.

Sorry, its only illegal to the extent its enforced. And the Gvt has taken a hands off approach up until now. And the parents and high schools should deal with their own problems. When I was in HS there was a scenario similar to what you described. I chose not to do them because of the risks. Every kid has the opportunity to make the same choice. Besides, as youve observed, kids are still doing them when its illegal. Its not like theyre hard to get and so those who dont probably abstain because they are weighing the risks. If they were legal, would it be any different? Probably not.

[glucklich]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

I think you're forgetting something...it's ILLEGAL!!! Unless you want to legalize marijuana as well, I'm not sure what the debate is about. If you think things like Andro should be legal, that's another story, but steroids are illegal enhancements. If I take pain killers as I did for my shoulder injury my senior season, I was not a better player than before I got tendanitus. I was just better able to play through the pain.

Like HeelFan said, their is a culture in baseball so competitive that you begin to fall behind if you make the poor decision of cheating (by definition since you're breaking the rules) and taking illegal substances. My best friend is a pro pitcher who played in the Frontier League last year and some of the stories are scary. He could do a cycle in the offseason, come back throwing in the high 90's instead of the low 90's, and scouts would drool over him. You get paid jack-crap in these leagues and with all the talent waiting to be discovered, why wouldn't you juice? Well he didn't and does not, but not everyone can make that choice.

It'll only get worse too, as kids will relate getting into a D1 college as a quicker way to get noticed and set themselves up to be drafted. I live a town over from Peabody, MA where their coach of about 18 years was fired after exposing a pattern of substance abuse after Jeff Allison (of Peabody High) was drafted by the Marlins and sent home for his addiction to OC's. We all knew a lot of those kids juiced every spring when we played them and now it was made public, so the problem is worse than you think.

Sorry, its only illegal to the extent its enforced. And the Gvt has taken a hands off approach up until now. And the parents and high schools should deal with their own problems. When I was in HS there was a scenario similar to what you described. I chose not to do them because of the risks. Every kid has the opportunity to make the same choice. Besides, as youve observed, kids are still doing them when its illegal. Its not like theyre hard to get and so those who dont probably abstain because they are weighing the risks. If they were legal, would it be any different? Probably not.

[CWood2]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Sorry, its only illegal to the extent its enforced. And the Gvt has taken a hands off approach up until now. And the parents and high schools should deal with their own problems. When I was in HS there was a scenario similar to what you described. I chose not to do them because of the risks. Every kid has the opportunity to make the same choice. Besides, as youve observed, kids are still doing them when its illegal. Its not like theyre hard to get and so those who dont probably abstain because they are weighing the risks. If they were legal, would it be any different? Probably not.

I don't think that many kids are afraid of steroids, so I'm not sure they abstain due to the risks. Some might not be informed, so they take them somewhat ignorantly. But most of the players I've talked to directly and indirectly feel like it could be a risk NOT to take them in order to keep up with the others and don't view them as potentially destructive. Truth is that 1 cycle probably won't shorten your life, and even if it does, what's a year at the end of your life to a young athlete who can optimize his prime years? When so many of the newer steroids start out by being legal and then get outlawed, it's almost saying that they can't be all that dangerous if they were sold over the counter once...even if MLB is behind in keeping up with all the new stuff out there that your local BALCO offers.

That's the scary message it gives, and nearly everyone I know who hasn't succumb to the temptation talks about their decision like it would have been so easy and so amazing in terms of the results...like they made a mistake or something. Tough to hear coming from your close friends too who played little league with you, even if they're clean for the time being. But you're right glucklich, it's just as easy to drink at 18 as it is to take steroids. If MLB is going to take this weak stance, athletes need to be educated so THEY can make the right choice and start changing the culture for the upcoming generation.

[CWood2]

Re: Why are steroids so bad?

Sorry, its only illegal to the extent its enforced. And the Gvt has taken a hands off approach up until now. And the parents and high schools should deal with their own problems. When I was in HS there was a scenario similar to what you described. I chose not to do them because of the risks. Every kid has the opportunity to make the same choice. Besides, as youve observed, kids are still doing them when its illegal. Its not like theyre hard to get and so those who dont probably abstain because they are weighing the risks. If they were legal, would it be any different? Probably not.

I don't think that many kids are afraid of steroids, so I'm not sure they abstain due to the risks. Some might not be informed, so they take them somewhat ignorantly. But most of the players I've talked to directly and indirectly feel like it could be a risk NOT to take them in order to keep up with the others and don't view them as potentially destructive. Truth is that 1 cycle probably won't shorten your life, and even if it does, what's a year at the end of your life to a young athlete who can optimize his prime years? When so many of the newer steroids start out by being legal and then get outlawed, it's almost saying that they can't be all that dangerous if they were sold over the counter once...even if MLB is behind in keeping up with all the new stuff out there that your local BALCO offers.

That's the scary message it gives, and nearly everyone I know who hasn't succumb to the temptation talks about their decision like it would have been so easy and so amazing in terms of the results...like they made a mistake or something. Tough to hear coming from your close friends too who played little league with you, even if they're clean for the time being. But you're right glucklich, it's just as easy to drink at 18 as it is to take steroids. If MLB is going to take this weak stance, athletes need to be educated so THEY can make the right choice and start changing the culture for the upcoming generation.