Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

[SPTO]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

As much as I hate to say it Bonds would get my vote. He had HOF credentials even before he started bulking up. So based on that he's a HOF'er.

[SPTO]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

As much as I hate to say it Bonds would get my vote. He had HOF credentials even before he started bulking up. So based on that he's a HOF'er.

[Brandwin]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Bonds for me and its not that hard of a choice. With ROse and then McGwire

[Brandwin]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Bonds for me and its not that hard of a choice. With ROse and then McGwire

[mjb2124]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

But the evidence suggests that Jackson did not try his best. The White Sox and Reds played eight games in the 1919 World Series. The evidence suggests that the conspirators tried to win three games, and they tried to lose five. Jackson hit .545 in the three games he wanted to win.

In the first four games the conspirators wanted to lose, Jackson hit .250 with zero RBI. In the fifth fixed game, Jackson was hitless until the Reds were ahead 5-0, at which point he hit a solo home run. Later, with the Sox trailing the Reds 10-1, Jackson hit a meaningless two-run double.

In the field, Jackson's play was questionable, too. Triples are rarely hit to left field ... yet in the 1919 World Series, three of Cincinnati's nine triples were hit to left field, where Jackson was stationed. And there were other things, too. White Sox pitcher Dickie Kerr, who won twice in the Series, later commented, "Our outfielders fielded base hits slow, allowing the Reds to take extra bases. And, there were times when the fielders played the Reds just opposite of what they were supposed to do. In that way they left gaps for the ball to fall safely."

http://espn.go.com/classic/s/2001/0730/1232950.html

Interesting. I had never heard that broken down before.

The only thing I question is that hitting a baseball is hard enough as it is. Not many guys can just turn it on when they choose and decide to hit. To hit .545 in games where he "tried" and then .250 in the games he wanted to lose could be telling. If he could just turn it on, then he was an even better player than I thought. I'm going to have to think about this one more...

[mjb2124]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

But the evidence suggests that Jackson did not try his best. The White Sox and Reds played eight games in the 1919 World Series. The evidence suggests that the conspirators tried to win three games, and they tried to lose five. Jackson hit .545 in the three games he wanted to win.

In the first four games the conspirators wanted to lose, Jackson hit .250 with zero RBI. In the fifth fixed game, Jackson was hitless until the Reds were ahead 5-0, at which point he hit a solo home run. Later, with the Sox trailing the Reds 10-1, Jackson hit a meaningless two-run double.

In the field, Jackson's play was questionable, too. Triples are rarely hit to left field ... yet in the 1919 World Series, three of Cincinnati's nine triples were hit to left field, where Jackson was stationed. And there were other things, too. White Sox pitcher Dickie Kerr, who won twice in the Series, later commented, "Our outfielders fielded base hits slow, allowing the Reds to take extra bases. And, there were times when the fielders played the Reds just opposite of what they were supposed to do. In that way they left gaps for the ball to fall safely."

http://espn.go.com/classic/s/2001/0730/1232950.html

Interesting. I had never heard that broken down before.

The only thing I question is that hitting a baseball is hard enough as it is. Not many guys can just turn it on when they choose and decide to hit. To hit .545 in games where he "tried" and then .250 in the games he wanted to lose could be telling. If he could just turn it on, then he was an even better player than I thought. I'm going to have to think about this one more...

[p2xgamers]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Rose. What cracks me up is people call rose scum and other things but when they talk about bonds and mcgwire they give the excuse "Well, they were still good before taking steroids" or of course the classic "other people do it too" excuse. So using that "other people do it too" excuse, does that mean I can steal without getting in trouble? No I would get punished and what have players like Bonds gotten? Oh right, no punishment at all.

I'm not saying what Rose did was right but seriously, who did it hurt? His players didn't purposely lose (as far as I know) and he didn't cheat to win yet he gets banned from the game he loves and steroid users get nothing even though they cheat to win and cheat to break records.

Just my 2 cents.

[p2xgamers]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Rose. What cracks me up is people call rose scum and other things but when they talk about bonds and mcgwire they give the excuse "Well, they were still good before taking steroids" or of course the classic "other people do it too" excuse. So using that "other people do it too" excuse, does that mean I can steal without getting in trouble? No I would get punished and what have players like Bonds gotten? Oh right, no punishment at all.

I'm not saying what Rose did was right but seriously, who did it hurt? His players didn't purposely lose (as far as I know) and he didn't cheat to win yet he gets banned from the game he loves and steroid users get nothing even though they cheat to win and cheat to break records.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mariners4411]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Rose. What cracks me up is people call rose scum and other things but when they talk about bonds and mcgwire they give the excuse "Well, they were still good before taking steroids" or of course the classic "other people do it too" excuse. So using that "other people do it too" excuse, does that mean I can steal without getting in trouble? No I would get punished and what have players like Bonds gotten? Oh right, no punishment at all.

I'm not saying what Rose did was right but seriously, who did it hurt? His players didn't purposely lose (as far as I know) and he didn't cheat to win yet he gets banned from the game he loves and steroid users get nothing even though they cheat to win and cheat to break records.

Just my 2 cents.

amen, i couldnt of said it better. im sick of hearing about how Pete Rose hurt the integrity of the game. Bonds, and the other players on steroids hurt the integrity of the game more then Rose could ever have.

[Mariners4411]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Rose. What cracks me up is people call rose scum and other things but when they talk about bonds and mcgwire they give the excuse "Well, they were still good before taking steroids" or of course the classic "other people do it too" excuse. So using that "other people do it too" excuse, does that mean I can steal without getting in trouble? No I would get punished and what have players like Bonds gotten? Oh right, no punishment at all.

I'm not saying what Rose did was right but seriously, who did it hurt? His players didn't purposely lose (as far as I know) and he didn't cheat to win yet he gets banned from the game he loves and steroid users get nothing even though they cheat to win and cheat to break records.

Just my 2 cents.

amen, i couldnt of said it better. im sick of hearing about how Pete Rose hurt the integrity of the game. Bonds, and the other players on steroids hurt the integrity of the game more then Rose could ever have.

[manchester united FC]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

I'd rather see Gil Hodges get in before any of them. But, if I had to choose between those three, I'd take Pete Rose. All time hits leader should be in the hall. Then Bonds, not mgwire though...ever.

[manchester united FC]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

I'd rather see Gil Hodges get in before any of them. But, if I had to choose between those three, I'd take Pete Rose. All time hits leader should be in the hall. Then Bonds, not mgwire though...ever.

[ehh]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

What cracks me up is people call rose scum and other things but when they talk about bonds and mcgwire they give the excuse "Well, they were still good before taking steroids" or of course the classic "other people do it too" excuse.

Pete Rose is scum because he is equvalent to Canseco in terms of being a human being. Lying, selfish, out to make money regardless of who's expense it comes at, and every time he apologized you can tell he isn't sorry, that he doesn't mean it, that he doesn't regret what he did. Meanwhile, McGwire was practically on the verge of tears (though he's almost always on the verge of tears regardless) when he was simply pleading the 5th.

And most importantly and the bottom line for me, IT WAS ILLEGAL to bet on baseball when Pete Rose did it. He broke a clearly stated rule, knew of the consequences, and continued to do so. McGwire and Bonds, if they did in fact take steriods, where not breaking any rule at the time they did. Granted it may have been immoral in some peoples' minds to take steriods, they weren't breaking any MLB rules, while Pete Rose did.

And that's why I'm sticking w. my decision.....

Hall for Bonds
No Hall for Rose

[ehh]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

What cracks me up is people call rose scum and other things but when they talk about bonds and mcgwire they give the excuse "Well, they were still good before taking steroids" or of course the classic "other people do it too" excuse.

Pete Rose is scum because he is equvalent to Canseco in terms of being a human being. Lying, selfish, out to make money regardless of who's expense it comes at, and every time he apologized you can tell he isn't sorry, that he doesn't mean it, that he doesn't regret what he did. Meanwhile, McGwire was practically on the verge of tears (though he's almost always on the verge of tears regardless) when he was simply pleading the 5th.

And most importantly and the bottom line for me, IT WAS ILLEGAL to bet on baseball when Pete Rose did it. He broke a clearly stated rule, knew of the consequences, and continued to do so. McGwire and Bonds, if they did in fact take steriods, where not breaking any rule at the time they did. Granted it may have been immoral in some peoples' minds to take steriods, they weren't breaking any MLB rules, while Pete Rose did.

And that's why I'm sticking w. my decision.....

Hall for Bonds
No Hall for Rose

[p2xgamers]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

McGwire and Bonds, if they did in fact take steriods, where not breaking any rule at the time they did.

They cheated. End of story in my book and unless the MLB decides to actually investigate and punish Bonds and others, then the only punishment I can think of is just not letting them in the HOF. I agree Rose is a lyer and broke MLB rules however I think there is a huge line between betting on baseball to make money and taking steroids to cheat and break extremely prestigious records. (namely the season and all-time HR record)