Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

[jdros13]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Pete Rose spent time in prison. Bonds has not. Whats your point? Shoeless Joe Jackson was found innocent of fixing the WS yet was still banned from the HOF. The Law has nothing to do with the HOF unless where its specifically indicated. In the words of Danny Aiello in The Professional, "get that into your ****ing head."

Shoeless Joe was found innocent in the courts, but I know that I'm not the only one who thinks he knew exactly what he was doing, especially since he accepted the money after all....

Nearly all historians who have studied the Black Sox scandal supported Jackson’s banishment. Bill James has described Jackson’s supporters as “baseball’s answer to those women who show up at murder trials wanting to marry the cute murderer.” When the myth is stripped away, Shoeless Joe stands exposed as a willing participant in baseball’s greatest crime.

Shoeless - The Life and Times of Joe Jackson
Sorry Ted, Shoeless Joe Got What He Deserved

[jdros13]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Pete Rose spent time in prison. Bonds has not. Whats your point? Shoeless Joe Jackson was found innocent of fixing the WS yet was still banned from the HOF. The Law has nothing to do with the HOF unless where its specifically indicated. In the words of Danny Aiello in The Professional, "get that into your ****ing head."

Shoeless Joe was found innocent in the courts, but I know that I'm not the only one who thinks he knew exactly what he was doing, especially since he accepted the money after all....

Nearly all historians who have studied the Black Sox scandal supported Jackson’s banishment. Bill James has described Jackson’s supporters as “baseball’s answer to those women who show up at murder trials wanting to marry the cute murderer.” When the myth is stripped away, Shoeless Joe stands exposed as a willing participant in baseball’s greatest crime.

Shoeless - The Life and Times of Joe Jackson
Sorry Ted, Shoeless Joe Got What He Deserved

[glucklich]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Come on footballfever how can you say after he was in denial to the league of his betting on games and then comes out with a book saying he never bet on his team or when he played in games. You just plainly say ok Pete, we believe that since you said in your book you only bet on games concering other teams and never once on your own team we believe you...I just dont see how you can believe him 100%?

I agree with you that rose deserves to be in the HOF just as much if not more than Barry...but

Barry had 3 mvps before his roid era plus he was a 500/500 guy too...he dominated the early and late 90's with griffey and you cant deny that...guy have cheated in baseball throughout the century and I know you being older know this...you cant just cut off the HOF and say now no cheaters allowed when the HOF has done it with neikro and perry to name a few...

Implicitly Rose did bet against his team. If hes betting on his team, especially if hes highly accurate which he was, you can make the inference to bet against the Reds when Pete didnt bet...so in effect he did bet against his team.

[glucklich]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Come on footballfever how can you say after he was in denial to the league of his betting on games and then comes out with a book saying he never bet on his team or when he played in games. You just plainly say ok Pete, we believe that since you said in your book you only bet on games concering other teams and never once on your own team we believe you...I just dont see how you can believe him 100%?

I agree with you that rose deserves to be in the HOF just as much if not more than Barry...but

Barry had 3 mvps before his roid era plus he was a 500/500 guy too...he dominated the early and late 90's with griffey and you cant deny that...guy have cheated in baseball throughout the century and I know you being older know this...you cant just cut off the HOF and say now no cheaters allowed when the HOF has done it with neikro and perry to name a few...

Implicitly Rose did bet against his team. If hes betting on his team, especially if hes highly accurate which he was, you can make the inference to bet against the Reds when Pete didnt bet...so in effect he did bet against his team.

[glucklich]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Shoeless Joe was found innocent in the courts, but I know that I'm not the only one who thinks he knew exactly what he was doing, especially since he accepted the money after all....



Shoeless - The Life and Times of Joe Jackson
Sorry Ted, Shoeless Joe Got What He Deserved

Hence, the HOF is in its own plastic bubble apart than what is legal per se.

[glucklich]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Shoeless Joe was found innocent in the courts, but I know that I'm not the only one who thinks he knew exactly what he was doing, especially since he accepted the money after all....



Shoeless - The Life and Times of Joe Jackson
Sorry Ted, Shoeless Joe Got What He Deserved

Hence, the HOF is in its own plastic bubble apart than what is legal per se.

[AtXj]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Rose, I will wait for a decision on Bonds and Mcgwire until the whole steriod issue has passed over and been sorted out. We all know what Pete Rose did and there is no mystery about what he did wrong, his scandal had nothing to do with affecting how he played the game of baseball.

[AtXj]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Rose, I will wait for a decision on Bonds and Mcgwire until the whole steriod issue has passed over and been sorted out. We all know what Pete Rose did and there is no mystery about what he did wrong, his scandal had nothing to do with affecting how he played the game of baseball.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Rose, I will wait for a decision on Bonds and Mcgwire until the whole steriod issue has passed over and been sorted out. We all know what Pete Rose did and there is no mystery about what he did wrong, his scandal had nothing to do with affecting how he played the game of baseball.

He did nothing to affect how he played the game? Come on buddy he bet on his own games. You mean to tell me he didnt call it a night when he was playing/managing the Reds? No one knows but Rose and the guy lied for a decade about betting on the game period and then decides to come clean. I think rose and barry should be in the HOF. The HOF isnt made for saints period. You guys are just letting some things sail right over your heads and only looking at what is in front of you.

Henry Schulman said, "The Hall of Fame is not a museum for saints. It's filled with racists, philanderers, players who used corked bats and spitters and everything at their disposal to their advantage."

"I begrudge the era that tolerated this more than I begrudge the man," said Jeff Horrigan of the Boston Herald, who said he would vote for both. "You can't wipe out the '90s."

"I'm not bothered by the steroids issue and because there were no rules on the books before December 2003, it's impossible to go back in time and penalize people. Would I rather people not use steroids? Sure. People talk about integrity in baseball, but there is no integrity. This is the same sport that kept blacks out until 1947. If you want to talk about asterisks, let's go back and do that prior to 1947. It's the most ridiculous witch hunt I've ever heard of. If we got past the omission of blacks in baseball, we can get past this."
-- Rob Parker, Detroit News

Basically the same way i feel

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Rose, I will wait for a decision on Bonds and Mcgwire until the whole steriod issue has passed over and been sorted out. We all know what Pete Rose did and there is no mystery about what he did wrong, his scandal had nothing to do with affecting how he played the game of baseball.

He did nothing to affect how he played the game? Come on buddy he bet on his own games. You mean to tell me he didnt call it a night when he was playing/managing the Reds? No one knows but Rose and the guy lied for a decade about betting on the game period and then decides to come clean. I think rose and barry should be in the HOF. The HOF isnt made for saints period. You guys are just letting some things sail right over your heads and only looking at what is in front of you.

Henry Schulman said, "The Hall of Fame is not a museum for saints. It's filled with racists, philanderers, players who used corked bats and spitters and everything at their disposal to their advantage."

"I begrudge the era that tolerated this more than I begrudge the man," said Jeff Horrigan of the Boston Herald, who said he would vote for both. "You can't wipe out the '90s."

"I'm not bothered by the steroids issue and because there were no rules on the books before December 2003, it's impossible to go back in time and penalize people. Would I rather people not use steroids? Sure. People talk about integrity in baseball, but there is no integrity. This is the same sport that kept blacks out until 1947. If you want to talk about asterisks, let's go back and do that prior to 1947. It's the most ridiculous witch hunt I've ever heard of. If we got past the omission of blacks in baseball, we can get past this."
-- Rob Parker, Detroit News

Basically the same way i feel

[mjb2124]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Mcgwire I dont know...he was a questionable before the roid usage and becomes even more questionable after his testimony...

I diagree with that. He was a HOF'er before the steroid allegations IMO. I'm pretty sure all 500+ HR hitters have made it into the HOF.

Like you've said, cheating has been around in baseball for years, can't keep a guy out of the HOF now for doing it.

This might not coincide with my personal beliefs, but I'm also not naive enough to think that Barry or Mac won't ever make the HOF. They'll get in eventually.

[mjb2124]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Mcgwire I dont know...he was a questionable before the roid usage and becomes even more questionable after his testimony...

I diagree with that. He was a HOF'er before the steroid allegations IMO. I'm pretty sure all 500+ HR hitters have made it into the HOF.

Like you've said, cheating has been around in baseball for years, can't keep a guy out of the HOF now for doing it.

This might not coincide with my personal beliefs, but I'm also not naive enough to think that Barry or Mac won't ever make the HOF. They'll get in eventually.

[SportsTop]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

It's important to bring all the facts to light when talking about a subject that most of us (myself included) are still ignorant on to help prevent assumptions about the facts and people involved.

1. THG did not become illegal until 2003.

2. hGH is illegal to sell without a prescription but is not illegal for personal use during the timeframe in which Bonds has been implicated. Add to this that hGH is not a steroid. While this may be semantics, it still plays into the agrument as to whether or not some (or all) of these players are telling the truth.

From this, we can deduce that if Bonds was taking THG or hGH, he was not breaking any federal laws or Baseball rules.

The only argument that cannot be countered in Bonds favor is the fact that he admittly applied the "cream" to his skin which is testosterone based. Now, whether he knew it was actually a steroid is only known to a small circle of people.

I've yet to find out much information on what exactly the "clear" is and whether it is testosterone based or if it is a form of THG or hGH.

I think it is a little premature to ban these guys from the HOF with the argument on what was allowable by baseball, but against federal law until it comes out (if ever) what type of performance enhancers these players were actually taking.

[SportsTop]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

It's important to bring all the facts to light when talking about a subject that most of us (myself included) are still ignorant on to help prevent assumptions about the facts and people involved.

1. THG did not become illegal until 2003.

2. hGH is illegal to sell without a prescription but is not illegal for personal use during the timeframe in which Bonds has been implicated. Add to this that hGH is not a steroid. While this may be semantics, it still plays into the agrument as to whether or not some (or all) of these players are telling the truth.

From this, we can deduce that if Bonds was taking THG or hGH, he was not breaking any federal laws or Baseball rules.

The only argument that cannot be countered in Bonds favor is the fact that he admittly applied the "cream" to his skin which is testosterone based. Now, whether he knew it was actually a steroid is only known to a small circle of people.

I've yet to find out much information on what exactly the "clear" is and whether it is testosterone based or if it is a form of THG or hGH.

I think it is a little premature to ban these guys from the HOF with the argument on what was allowable by baseball, but against federal law until it comes out (if ever) what type of performance enhancers these players were actually taking.

[dce1228]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

Ron Santo, Bert Blyleven and Darrel Evans