Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

[SportsTop]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

They cheated. End of story in my book and unless the MLB decides to actually investigate and punish Bonds and others, then the only punishment I can think of is just not letting them in the HOF. I agree Rose is a lyer and broke MLB rules however I think there is a huge line between betting on baseball to make money and taking steroids to cheat and break extremely prestigious records. (namely the season and all-time HR record)

How is it cheating if it isn't against MLB rules/policy? They cannot go back and punish any of the alleged steroid users because they weren't doing anything wrong in baseball's eyes.

If team specific ownership and management turned a blind eye and even MLB brass turning the other cheek is true, then how can we blame the players for using performance enhancing substances? I'm sure the players were aware that baseball was aware of what they were doing and no one told them to stop. What would that tell you if you were a player? I would take it as a silent endorsement.

The last part of this argument is: How do any of us know exactly how much steroids increased a players performance? Did it increase hand-eye-coordination? Does it help you get the sweet part of the bat on the ball?

Until then I don't think any of us are qualified to decide wheter or not who is HOF worthy and who isn't.

[SportsTop]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

They cheated. End of story in my book and unless the MLB decides to actually investigate and punish Bonds and others, then the only punishment I can think of is just not letting them in the HOF. I agree Rose is a lyer and broke MLB rules however I think there is a huge line between betting on baseball to make money and taking steroids to cheat and break extremely prestigious records. (namely the season and all-time HR record)

How is it cheating if it isn't against MLB rules/policy? They cannot go back and punish any of the alleged steroid users because they weren't doing anything wrong in baseball's eyes.

If team specific ownership and management turned a blind eye and even MLB brass turning the other cheek is true, then how can we blame the players for using performance enhancing substances? I'm sure the players were aware that baseball was aware of what they were doing and no one told them to stop. What would that tell you if you were a player? I would take it as a silent endorsement.

The last part of this argument is: How do any of us know exactly how much steroids increased a players performance? Did it increase hand-eye-coordination? Does it help you get the sweet part of the bat on the ball?

Until then I don't think any of us are qualified to decide wheter or not who is HOF worthy and who isn't.

[playball11]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

I would vote for Pete Rose only! To me, the HOF should be on records and achievements-without cheating. Bonds and McGwire have cheated on their records and achievements using steroids Anyone thinking Bonds and McGwire did not use steroids are turning a blind eye!

[playball11]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

I would vote for Pete Rose only! To me, the HOF should be on records and achievements-without cheating. Bonds and McGwire have cheated on their records and achievements using steroids Anyone thinking Bonds and McGwire did not use steroids are turning a blind eye!

[Vince]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

The last part of this argument is: How do any of us know exactly how much steroids increased a players performance? Did it increase hand-eye-coordination? Does it help you get the sweet part of the bat on the ball?

We will find out in the next few season when we'll be able to compare the stats,before testing and after testing to see if really 'roids did have an effect on the power numbers or not.

[Vince]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

The last part of this argument is: How do any of us know exactly how much steroids increased a players performance? Did it increase hand-eye-coordination? Does it help you get the sweet part of the bat on the ball?

We will find out in the next few season when we'll be able to compare the stats,before testing and after testing to see if really 'roids did have an effect on the power numbers or not.

[p2xgamers]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

How is it cheating if it isn't against MLB rules/policy? They cannot go back and punish any of the alleged steroid users because they weren't doing anything wrong in baseball's eyes.

If team specific ownership and management turned a blind eye and even MLB brass turning the other cheek is true, then how can we blame the players for using performance enhancing substances? I'm sure the players were aware that baseball was aware of what they were doing and no one told them to stop. What would that tell you if you were a player? I would take it as a silent endorsement.

The last part of this argument is: How do any of us know exactly how much steroids increased a players performance? Did it increase hand-eye-coordination? Does it help you get the sweet part of the bat on the ball?

Until then I don't think any of us are qualified to decide wheter or not who is HOF worthy and who isn't.

First of all it's cheating because simply put, they had a huge advantage over the non-steroid users, which is cheating even though it's not against the rules.

Second of all don't put the guilt trip on the MLB and owners, they are definately partially to blame but that doesn't give the players the right to take them.

[p2xgamers]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

How is it cheating if it isn't against MLB rules/policy? They cannot go back and punish any of the alleged steroid users because they weren't doing anything wrong in baseball's eyes.

If team specific ownership and management turned a blind eye and even MLB brass turning the other cheek is true, then how can we blame the players for using performance enhancing substances? I'm sure the players were aware that baseball was aware of what they were doing and no one told them to stop. What would that tell you if you were a player? I would take it as a silent endorsement.

The last part of this argument is: How do any of us know exactly how much steroids increased a players performance? Did it increase hand-eye-coordination? Does it help you get the sweet part of the bat on the ball?

Until then I don't think any of us are qualified to decide wheter or not who is HOF worthy and who isn't.

First of all it's cheating because simply put, they had a huge advantage over the non-steroid users, which is cheating even though it's not against the rules.

Second of all don't put the guilt trip on the MLB and owners, they are definately partially to blame but that doesn't give the players the right to take them.

[SportsTop]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

First of all it's cheating because simply put, they had a huge advantage over the non-steroid users, which is cheating even though it's not against the rules.

Second of all don't put the guilt trip on the MLB and owners, they are definately partially to blame but that doesn't give the players the right to take them.

I'm not trying to justify the use of steroids or side with the players on this one, but how do you know they had a huge advantage? How many other players were taking them? How can you say you can possibly know how much of an advantage steroids give certain players over the rest of the players, let alone a huge advantage? Do you honestly believe that the handful of players that have been mentioned lately were the only steroid users in baseball?

And it isn't a guilt trip, it's the truth. Again, I don't agree with it, but I think baseball is just as much to blame as the players are. Who would they be to come down and banish records or decree non-eligibility for players with regards to the HOF knowing their involvement?

[SportsTop]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

First of all it's cheating because simply put, they had a huge advantage over the non-steroid users, which is cheating even though it's not against the rules.

Second of all don't put the guilt trip on the MLB and owners, they are definately partially to blame but that doesn't give the players the right to take them.

I'm not trying to justify the use of steroids or side with the players on this one, but how do you know they had a huge advantage? How many other players were taking them? How can you say you can possibly know how much of an advantage steroids give certain players over the rest of the players, let alone a huge advantage? Do you honestly believe that the handful of players that have been mentioned lately were the only steroid users in baseball?

And it isn't a guilt trip, it's the truth. Again, I don't agree with it, but I think baseball is just as much to blame as the players are. Who would they be to come down and banish records or decree non-eligibility for players with regards to the HOF knowing their involvement?

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

rose bonds mcguire

bottom line rose didnt cheat to enhance his performance he just hustled and played hard bond was pretty good without the roids but coouldnt just be pretty good he had to cheat and ruin it. and mcguire could do nothing but hit the long ball and most of that was roid enduced in my eyes he doesn't even belong in a discussion about the hall of fame

Look the public believed he never bet on baseball and lied to us all for a many years and then comes out with a book to save face and make his way into the HOF. How do we know hes telling the truth when he says he didnt bet on his own team or when he was playing...

And this being said I still think he should be in the HOF...Even if some part of me says NO....but im not bud selig

Bonds and Mcgwire may have beefed up to enhance their game...but BONDS WAS HOF bound before...3 MVP's pre-roid era...you know how many 3 time MVP's are in the HOF? ALL OF EM....His stats compare with mantle, mays and others...Mcgwire I dont know...he was a questionable before the roid usage and becomes even more questionable after his testimony...

You want to talk about enhancing your ability...these guys are out there taking greenies to better their hand eye coordintion, concentration, and reflexes by taking amphetamines and no one is saying this should be rectified or changed...you know why cause the american public doesnt notice the PHYSICAL change it gives like steroids does...

The game of baseball will always have people trying to find an edge to better their game when money is invovled. And its been that way since day 1. The HOF has no moral character what-so-ever because it has inducted known racists, drug users, cheaters, alcoholics, womanizers...come on the HOF isnt made of the most ideal heroes and idols...

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

rose bonds mcguire

bottom line rose didnt cheat to enhance his performance he just hustled and played hard bond was pretty good without the roids but coouldnt just be pretty good he had to cheat and ruin it. and mcguire could do nothing but hit the long ball and most of that was roid enduced in my eyes he doesn't even belong in a discussion about the hall of fame

Look the public believed he never bet on baseball and lied to us all for a many years and then comes out with a book to save face and make his way into the HOF. How do we know hes telling the truth when he says he didnt bet on his own team or when he was playing...

And this being said I still think he should be in the HOF...Even if some part of me says NO....but im not bud selig

Bonds and Mcgwire may have beefed up to enhance their game...but BONDS WAS HOF bound before...3 MVP's pre-roid era...you know how many 3 time MVP's are in the HOF? ALL OF EM....His stats compare with mantle, mays and others...Mcgwire I dont know...he was a questionable before the roid usage and becomes even more questionable after his testimony...

You want to talk about enhancing your ability...these guys are out there taking greenies to better their hand eye coordintion, concentration, and reflexes by taking amphetamines and no one is saying this should be rectified or changed...you know why cause the american public doesnt notice the PHYSICAL change it gives like steroids does...

The game of baseball will always have people trying to find an edge to better their game when money is invovled. And its been that way since day 1. The HOF has no moral character what-so-ever because it has inducted known racists, drug users, cheaters, alcoholics, womanizers...come on the HOF isnt made of the most ideal heroes and idols...

[p2xgamers]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

I'm not trying to justify the use of steroids or side with the players on this one, but how do you know they had a huge advantage? How many other players were taking them? How can you say you can possibly know how much of an advantage steroids give certain players over the rest of the players, let alone a huge advantage? Do you honestly believe that the handful of players that have been mentioned lately were the only steroid users in baseball?

And it isn't a guilt trip, it's the truth. Again, I don't agree with it, but I think baseball is just as much to blame as the players are. Who would they be to come down and banish records or decree non-eligibility for players with regards to the HOF knowing their involvement?

I'm sure a lot of players use steroids and they have an advantage because it is a performance enhancer.

If no one is going to punish the players, then who will? The MLB and owners aren't going to punish any stars and I highly doubt the cops care either so the only way I can think of punishing them is to not allow them to go in the HOF.

[p2xgamers]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

I'm not trying to justify the use of steroids or side with the players on this one, but how do you know they had a huge advantage? How many other players were taking them? How can you say you can possibly know how much of an advantage steroids give certain players over the rest of the players, let alone a huge advantage? Do you honestly believe that the handful of players that have been mentioned lately were the only steroid users in baseball?

And it isn't a guilt trip, it's the truth. Again, I don't agree with it, but I think baseball is just as much to blame as the players are. Who would they be to come down and banish records or decree non-eligibility for players with regards to the HOF knowing their involvement?

I'm sure a lot of players use steroids and they have an advantage because it is a performance enhancer.

If no one is going to punish the players, then who will? The MLB and owners aren't going to punish any stars and I highly doubt the cops care either so the only way I can think of punishing them is to not allow them to go in the HOF.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, or Barry Bonds.. who has your HOF vote.

First of all it's cheating because simply put, they had a huge advantage over the non-steroid users, which is cheating even though it's not against the rules.

Second of all don't put the guilt trip on the MLB and owners, they are definately partially to blame but that doesn't give the players the right to take them.

If they had a huge advantage why didnt more stand up and complain? Why didnt pitchers come out and say theyre digracing baseball and cheating their way to bigger contracts, and ballooning their ERA? Why didnt more players use it? Come on man you cant say it was a huge dvantage....Amphetamines do more for a player on a daily basis then roids ever will do. So dont sit there and allow the media to pull a blanket over your eyes and make it like all of baseball are clean and angels....The game has been cheating since the early 1900's, and unfortunately it wont stop...

Doesnt give them the right to blame the MLB and owners ? It maybe illegal governmentally but the MLB and owners knew...Hell Kevin Towers frieking knew. he didnt stop Cam you know why? Brought him more money and wins and a playoff appearance. Kept his seat warm as the GM...Dont give me this ish theyre partially to blame....they LET it happen and didnt say a thing...BECAUSE OF MONEY!!! (Theyre about 80% to blame) Im sure anyone put in the same damn situation with multi millions on the line and you knew itd make you go from being a border line all star to a bonified one youd jump on the bandwagon too....

So I guess if you were working as an accountant for a HUGE corproation and your CEO let you file company taxes that were fradulent and you he kept giving you larger bonuses because the IRS wasnt finding out...and then BAM one day they catch your @$$, you're going to sit in court and let the CEO get less of a sentence than you? You go to jail for 30 years and he gets a 5 year sentence? We can only say the CEO was at fault partially? Im sure youd say different my friend if you put on the other shoe...
Hell david wells thinks almost 20-30% of baseball were roiding...