2015 Atlanta Braves

[LowerWolf]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

I'm with you, SF.

I said in spring training Wood was due for a regression, and he has regressed. He's still good obviously, but I really think we sold high on him. I wish Wood all the best, but I like the ceilings better for Wisler, Banuelos and Folty.

I don't really pay much attention to the minor leagues, so I have no real opinion of Peraza. But it's clear we soured on him. Our top prospect can't make it to Atlanta while Daniel Castro and Adonis Garcia do? And then Hart says they didn't see him making an impact next year either? And we've got a pretty good track record of knowing when to bail on prospects. For every Wainwright, there's a Salty/Andy Marte/David Nied/Melvin Nieves.

Speaking of which, our scouts loved Olivera last winter. Yeah, I wish he was younger. But 30 isn't ancient in baseball. If he's all he's cracked up to be, we've got a pretty good 3B on the cheap. I'll take an infield of Freeman/Peterson/Olivera/Simmons. He may not hit 30 or 40 homers, but look around, this isn't the 90s anymore, those guys are rare. I'll take a 20 homer season with a high OPS.

And Hart/Coppollela have earned a bit of trust at this point. We all wailed over the Heyward trade. That's worked out pretty well. The Upton trade looks pretty good. The Kimbrel trade looks better and better, and maybe, just maybe we knew what were getting with Maybin.

I'm more excited about the rest of the season than I was a few days ago. I want to see if this Olivera guy can live up to some of the hype he's getting. Can Vizcaino be a bonafide closer now? Can Folty put it together to be a dominant starter? Can Wisler continue to pitch the way he has? Can Peterson make the adjustments to get it going again? We stink, but it's going to be fun watching some of these guys grow.

[thefakeJTS]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

I don't know if you guys are actually making this trade make sense to me or we are all so delusional from how awful it really is.

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[Sportsforever]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

I don't know if you guys are actually making this trade make sense to me or we are all so delusional from how awful it really is.

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It's not awful. People may think I'm being homer here, but I honestly feel like we fleeced LA/MIA. Paco Rodgriguez, while he's had some injury problems of late, is a great left handed reliever. He's still young and the injury problems aren't serious. Avilan can't carry his jock strap. Zach Bird, while young, is a top 15 prospect in the Dodgers system and is only 20 years old with GREAT numbers in the minors so far. The pick we got is #34 in the draft next year...that's huge.

And then Oliveras...after the trade yesterday I went back and read ALL the articles from February/March timeframe to see what the scouts were saying. They all LOVED him...they all said this kid is an instant all-star caliber player, his bat is fantastic, etc. I looked at his numbers in Cuba...amazing...his numbers in the minors (albeit in a very small sample) are fantastic. All the guy has done is hit, hit and hit.

For that we gave up a washed up reliever (Johnson), Luis Avilan (who has been crap for 3 years now), Alex Wood (who I've already talked about), and Peraza (who is a singles hitter who hasn't shown he can hit good pitching yet). That is truly an amazing haul and we gave up very little, IMO.

[thefakeJTS]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Assuming thay we finish in the bottom 10 so our 1st rounder would be protected. I heard the competitive balance pick would be protected also. This means we could still go out and sign a top free agent and keep both of the top picks.

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[LowerWolf]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

If we can find a C and LF in the offseason, I think we've got a pretty solid ballclub going into next season.

And we'll have some money and/or trade chips to go get those pieces.

[thefakeJTS]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

I see us grabbing Wieters and possibly Cespesdes

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[Sportsforever]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

If we can find a C and LF in the offseason, I think we've got a pretty solid ballclub going into next season.

And we'll have some money and/or trade chips to go get those pieces.

I know DonkeyJote had mentioned Wieters earlier in the thread and I was against it...looking at it though, there just aren't a lot of good FA catchers available and Bethancourt isn't going to do much for us. I'd be all for getting Wieters IF we could get a good deal for him.

Seriously, if you think of all the pitching we'll have next year plus a lineup that could look like this:

Wieters, C
Freeman, 1B
Peterson, 2B
Simmons, SS
Oliveras, 3B
Maybin, LF
Smith, CF
Markakis, RF

...and possibly someone else in LF with Maybin in CF and Smith the 4th OF'r. Would love Heyward back in RF and move Markakis to LF.

Then a rotation consisting of 5 of the following:
Miller
Teheran
Wisler
Folty
Fried
Minor

...and a bullpen of:

Withrow
Rodriguez
Vizcaino
Grilli
whoever doesn't make the rotation

That's a very, very solid team...

[Chip Douglass]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

I don't think the trade was bad for Atlanta, but I also don't think it's fair to say Wood is an injury risk while not pointing out that Olivera has elbow problems and might need TJ surgery in the future himself.

For Wood + a top prospect, you probably could have gotten more than Olivera. It's really "risky older guy" for "two risky younger guys."

The Marlins probably got fleeced, but I tend to think of them more as an ATM machine and less as a baseball team.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

I don't think the trade was bad for Atlanta, but I also don't think it's fair to say Wood is an injury risk while not pointing out that Olivera has elbow problems and might need TJ surgery in the future himself.

For Wood + a top prospect, you probably could have gotten more than Olivera. It's really "risky older guy" for "two risky younger guys."

The Marlins probably got fleeced, but I tend to think of them more as an ATM machine and less as a baseball team.

Totally agree about Oliveras injury risk...but I worry less about that in a position player than a pitcher just by nature (now watch, Wood will be healthy for 15 years and Olivaras will need TJS before ever suiting up for ATL).

I'm just shocked at the response by fans as I read around the 'net...you'd think John Hart took a dump on Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltzie's HOF plaques or something from the stuff I'm reading. I think he's doing pretty well.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

A lot of fans don't see the big picture, and Olivera isn't a big name guy. Baseball is a different sport than the rest in that, imo, more often than not you build a winner in the minors, away from the fans. Baseball fans seem to be much more emotional about rebuilding than in football or even basketball. I think a lot of us, at least to a degree, follow the minor leagues, even if that's just looking up a guys numbers when a trade is made.

As far as Oliveras injury risk, I'm not too worried about it. It was considered more of a thing before he signed, and then the Dodgers felt good about throwing him out there, and playing him at third no less, when he's primarily been a second baseman. The likelihood of the tear becoming much worse is a lot lower than it would be with a pitcher, and if something did happen, recovery not quite so arderous. Wood has also already had Tommy John. That second one can be bad (Medlen isn't looking too hot, Beachy got dfa'd because of this deal)

For the OF next year, I think they'll listen again on Maybin. You can probably honestly get more for him then, than you could've gotten now. I'm not saying they have to deal him, but I think you certainly listen. I don't think Smith will be ready; he needs more time in the minors. He's still just 22 (we've gotten lucky with great teenagers the last decade or so). And while he did great in double A, Triple A has been tough on him so far.

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[Sportsforever]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

A lot of fans don't see the big picture, and Olivera isn't a big name guy. Baseball is a different sport than the rest in that, imo, more often than not you build a winner in the minors, away from the fans. Baseball fans seem to be much more emotional about rebuilding than in football or even basketball. I think a lot of us, at least to a degree, follow the minor leagues, even if that's just looking up a guys numbers when a trade is made.

As far as Oliveras injury risk, I'm not too worried about it. It was considered more of a thing before he signed, and then the Dodgers felt good about throwing him out there, and playing him at third no less, when he's primarily been a second baseman. The likelihood of the tear becoming much worse is a lot lower than it would be with a pitcher, and if something did happen, recovery not quite so arderous. Wood has also already had Tommy John. That second one can be bad (Medlen isn't looking too hot, Beachy got dfa'd because of this deal)

For the OF next year, I think they'll listen again on Maybin. You can probably honestly get more for him then, than you could've gotten now. I'm not saying they have to deal him, but I think you certainly listen. I don't think Smith will be ready; he needs more time in the minors. He's still just 22 (we've gotten lucky with great teenagers the last decade or so). And while he did great in double A, Triple A has been tough on him so far.

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I've been disappointed with Smith's AAA performance so far...the biggest disappointment being that the walk rate has been cut in half (down from 11% to around 5%). That said, scouts have been saying he could be a Kenny Lofton type player...I'd take that for a decade!

[KSUowls]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Can someone help me understand why we gave up one of our top position prospects, a young solid mlb pitcher who is cheap, on top of the other pieces for...

A 30 year old second baseman, a reliever and a low minors starter? Is zachary bird the next Kershaw or something?

[decga]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Can someone help me understand why we gave up one of our top position prospects, a young solid mlb pitcher who is cheap, on top of the other pieces for...

A 30 year old second baseman, a reliever and a low minors starter? Is zachary bird the next Kershaw or something?

Here's what I am hearing in Atlanta on 680 the Fan sports talk radio. The home of the Braves.
The organization doesn't like Peraza OBP isn't good enough to be a lead-off hitter. Although he is batting .299. If that would be for the big league club. It would be our team leader in batting average. It is apparent they weren't sold on Wood. They asked him to move to the right side of rubber and he would go back to the left. Its sounds coaching is big part of our team struggling at the big league level.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Can someone help me understand why we gave up one of our top position prospects, a young solid mlb pitcher who is cheap, on top of the other pieces for...

A 30 year old second baseman, a reliever and a low minors starter? Is zachary bird the next Kershaw or something?

Because our top position prospect didn't fit it with the organization long term. Best case senario, he peeks as a .310/.360/.400 guy at second base. Not bad, but Olivera could be a .320/.390/.480 almost immediately.

For Wood, the Braves have supposedly put a lot of systems in place in an attempt to better predict UCL tears. While obviously nothing is wrong now, or the Dodgers wouldn't have done the deal, red flags have come up. Namely his 2 and a half mph drop in fastball velocity since 2013. Most pitchers lose velocity as they progress and learn to pitch, but not nearly that much.

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[KSUowls]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

If he doesn't fit with our organization, then that's fine. I'm not saying that he should be untouchable, and I was even all for trading Wood as I never thought his mechanics were sustainable.

However, we are a rebuilding franchise, and we just traded a 24 year old pitcher who has had success at the major league level, one of our top prospects, and a couple veteran rentals for a 30 year old who has never played an inning at the major league level, a young reliever who has been used as a lefty specialist, and a prospect that didn't crack the top 10 of that team's organization. As the center piece, if Olivera was 26 or even 28 then great, but rebuilding teams don't have sustained success by paying a bounty for 30 year old players.