2015 Atlanta Braves

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  • DonkeyJote
    All Star
    • Jul 2003
    • 9187

    #601
    Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

    I don't think you have to hit 200 hr either. But we need to add about 60 hr to get to the halfway point. A guy like Davis helps that. A lot. I also think pitching is most important. That's a big reason why I'm not a proponent of trades for established hitters at this point. We have a lot of good young pitching, and but not enough to dip into. But your pitching and offense are largely independent of one another. And offensively, it's not the 70's where you can get away with a lot of slap hitters and one actual hitter. Even the guys we got rid of aren't great, were just having good stretches. Kelly Johnson was actually an even WAR guy for us. Uribe was just in a hot streak, and we smartly sold high, as he plummeted back to earth.

    Olivera's age doesn't concern me for a few reasons. One, Cuban seasons aren't as long, so when a player gets to the point where an American who's been in pro ball since his late teens or early twenties and is starting to lose some ability, Cuban guys have proven to stay stronger later. Two, a big part of the reason to stay away from established players when you're rebuilding is cost. They're established, and thus cost more, hurting against your salary restrictions. In Olivera's case, it lowered his cost.

    He'll only be 32 in 2017, and 35 when his deal expires. Worst case scenario, he's a .250/.310/.400 hitter with 15 hr at 3b. If that's the case, and Wood is a sub 4.00 era pitcher and Peraza can get on base at a .340 clip (which may be a stretch), then it's not a great deal, but it's still not a disaster. But if he can be a .280/.340/.450 guy with 20 hr in 2017 and 2018, at roughly $6 million, it's a fantastic deal unless both Peraza and Wood exceed expectations.

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    • Sportsforever
      NL MVP
      • Mar 2005
      • 20368

      #602
      Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

      So...the Mets have won TWO pennants since we won our last. Time to get in business. They did what we've tried to do by drafting/developing young pitching, but I just don't see us having anyone on the Harvey/DeGrom/Syndegard/Matz level at this point. Hard to believe how long it's been since we played in a World Series...
      "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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      • DonkeyJote
        All Star
        • Jul 2003
        • 9187

        #603
        Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

        Originally posted by Sportsforever
        So...the Mets have won TWO pennants since we won our last. Time to get in business. They did what we've tried to do by drafting/developing young pitching, but I just don't see us having anyone on the Harvey/DeGrom/Syndegard/Matz level at this point. Hard to believe how long it's been since we played in a World Series...
        I thought the same thing when they won; the rest of the NL East has 5 pennants since our last.

        As far as our pitching vs. theirs, it's too early to tell. Probably not Harvey, but DeGrom had a 2.73 era. That's good, but it's not terribly off Miller's 3.02. Teheran turned it around and had an ERA under 3 for the last 2 months. They're both 24, as is everyone else in the rotation (except for Minor if he's healthy) or younger, and will continue to grow. DeGrom is already 27. Even Harvey is already 26. And I believe Wisler will be improved, and hover around a 4.00 era, and I still love Banuelos, if he can ever stay healthy.

        Our best talent is still a couple years away. Toussaint is only 19, Allard is only 18, Fried is 21 and hasn't pitched. We'll start to see the next generation around the middle of 2017 or early 2018, and they have more talent than the crop of guys we have now.

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        • DonkeyJote
          All Star
          • Jul 2003
          • 9187

          #604
          Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

          Also, baseball-references has 2016 projections for players up. Their projection system simply uses the last 3 years, with more weight towards the recent. So it's not the most reliable. Some notables:

          Shelby - 9-12, 3.33 era
          Teheran - 11-9, 3.56 era
          Perez - 7-6, 4.34 era
          Wisler - 8-7, 4.22 era
          Minor - 4.45 era

          Pierzynski - .265/.302/.390, 10 hr
          Freeman - .290/.376/.474, 17 hr
          Peterson - .241/.311/.350, 7 hr, 9 sb
          Simmons - .257/.307/.364, 9 hr
          Maybin - .255/.314/.368, 9 hr
          Markakis - .275/.342/.377, 9 hr
          Bethanourt - .242/.288/.352, 5 hr
          Bourn - .249/.310/.341, 11 sb

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          • Sportsforever
            NL MVP
            • Mar 2005
            • 20368

            #605
            Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

            Originally posted by DonkeyJote
            I thought the same thing when they won; the rest of the NL East has 5 pennants since our last.

            As far as our pitching vs. theirs, it's too early to tell. Probably not Harvey, but DeGrom had a 2.73 era. That's good, but it's not terribly off Miller's 3.02. Teheran turned it around and had an ERA under 3 for the last 2 months. They're both 24, as is everyone else in the rotation (except for Minor if he's healthy) or younger, and will continue to grow. DeGrom is already 27. Even Harvey is already 26. And I believe Wisler will be improved, and hover around a 4.00 era, and I still love Banuelos, if he can ever stay healthy.

            Our best talent is still a couple years away. Toussaint is only 19, Allard is only 18, Fried is 21 and hasn't pitched. We'll start to see the next generation around the middle of 2017 or early 2018, and they have more talent than the crop of guys we have now.
            Oh, I know we have talent in Miller/Teheran...and you are correct in how much younger we are. I can't wait to see what happens this offseason...and man, already can't wait for Spring Training next year. It's actually kind of fun watching a rebuild...just hope it pays off.
            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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            • decga
              MVP
              • Mar 2004
              • 2469

              #606
              Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

              I like Fredi Gonzalez as manager, but he gots to go! We had one pennant wrapped up but faltered down the stretch. It was so bad it made into an intro of a video baseball game. Mattingly & Matt Williams are out there. I don't know if Terry Pendleton would be different than Fredi G as manager. Younger talent, rebuild, start it with a new look and philosophy. A consistent batting lineup everyday is a good thing.

              I am still hoping we can come to agreement with Heyward. He doesn't have hit lead-off. We have Markakis, Bourn or Jace. They can do that. Heyward can still be in RF or CF. Wishful thinking! But I don't want to see a 30 year old, Daniel Murphy at this stage of his career with my Braves. Jace Peterson is the same kind of player as Murphy, but with speed.
              Last edited by decga; 10-22-2015, 11:55 AM. Reason: Added more info and reworded myself

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              • Sportsforever
                NL MVP
                • Mar 2005
                • 20368

                #607
                Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

                You know, I always like defense at catcher...but I'd love to see us see if we can flip some of our pitching for a bat like Schwarber. I'd put up with him developing as a catcher.
                "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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                • DonkeyJote
                  All Star
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 9187

                  #608
                  Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

                  Originally posted by decga
                  I like Fredi Gonzalez as manager, but he gots to go! We had one pennant wrapped up but faltered down the stretch. It was so bad it made into an intro of a video baseball game. Mattingly & Matt Williams are out there. I don't know if Terry Pendleton would be different than Fredi G as manager. Younger talent, rebuild, start it with a new look and philosophy. A consistent batting lineup everyday is a good thing.

                  I am still hoping we can come to agreement with Heyward. He doesn't have hit lead-off. We have Markakis, Bourn or Jace. They can do that. Heyward can still be in RF or CF. Wishful thinking! But I don't want to see a 30 year old, Daniel Murphy at this stage of his career with my Braves. Jace Peterson is the same kind of player as Murphy, but with speed.
                  I'd be okay with Heyward, but honestly, with the makeup of this team it's tough to swallow getting yet another player without real power. With Heyward, you're looking at 30 hr total coming from the Outfield. He's a good player, but streaky and I'm not sure if he fits with this team. Maybe if we didn't already have Markakis.

                  Murphy is a .288/.331/.424 hitter with about 10 hr and almost 40 doubles a year. Peterson hit .239/.314/.335 with 5 hr and 23 doubles. His speed got him 12 for 22 stealing. Not the same player at all. Though he didn't run this year, Murphy went 13 for 18 last year.

                  If the club can actually get Mattingly, I'd so be for it. But Matt Williams, pass.

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                  • decga
                    MVP
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 2469

                    #609
                    Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

                    Originally posted by DonkeyJote
                    I'd be okay with Heyward, but honestly, with the makeup of this team it's tough to swallow getting yet another player without real power. With Heyward, you're looking at 30 hr total coming from the Outfield. He's a good player, but streaky and I'm not sure if he fits with this team. Maybe if we didn't already have Markakis.

                    Murphy is a .288/.331/.424 hitter with about 10 hr and almost 40 doubles a year. Peterson hit .239/.314/.335 with 5 hr and 23 doubles. His speed got him 12 for 22 stealing. Not the same player at all. Though he didn't run this year, Murphy went 13 for 18 last year.

                    If the club can actually get Mattingly, I'd so be for it. But Matt Williams, pass.

                    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
                    I meant Jace could be the same kinda of player 8 to 13 HR and the doubles. He showed he had some pop in his bat. It was his first real starting shot at 2B on the Major League level.

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                    • DonkeyJote
                      All Star
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 9187

                      #610
                      Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

                      His slugging was .100 below Murphy's. What pop? You're expecting him to double his power. He has one skill, and that's his plate discipline. Dude hit 3 hr in the minors in 2014 and 14 in 4 seasons down there. Peterson is not a starter on a good team. He will end up as a utility player. Murphy just won the nlcs mvp.

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                      • Speedy
                        #Ace
                        • Apr 2008
                        • 16143

                        #611
                        Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

                        Bottomline is we need to draft better.

                        I am seriously tired of drafting a pitcher every 1st round and see him with TJS within 2 years of MiLB ball.

                        Hopefully bringing back old scouting director Roy Clarke last year (now asst. GM) and letting him have his way will make an impact shortly in this past draft and next.
                        Originally posted by Gibson88
                        Anyone who asked for an ETA is not being Master of their Domain.
                        It's hard though...especially when I got my neighbor playing their franchise across the street...maybe I will occupy myself with Glamore Magazine.

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                        • DonkeyJote
                          All Star
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 9187

                          #612
                          Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

                          Yup. This millennium, we've had 28 1st Rd or supplemental picks and only 5 of those (Kelly Johnson, Wainwright, Francouer, Saltalamacchia, and Heyward) have over 5 war for their careers. And all of them but Johnson were gone by age 25.

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                          • decga
                            MVP
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 2469

                            #613
                            Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

                            Originally posted by DonkeyJote
                            His slugging was .100 below Murphy's. What pop? You're expecting him to double his power. He has one skill, and that's his plate discipline. Dude hit 3 hr in the minors in 2014 and 14 in 4 seasons down there. Peterson is not a starter on a good team. He will end up as a utility player. Murphy just won the nlcs mvp.

                            Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
                            Damn it! We got let some of these guys grow into MLB talent. Is Jace 30? No! If Jace and Possilbly Wisler not starters. WTF was Hart doing trading Kimbrel. Just cut BJ butt!

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                            • LowerWolf
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 12270

                              #614
                              Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

                              I still like Peterson. He's not an All-Star but he does just enough of everything to be a solid contributor at 2B. And I think he'll build on this year and get better.

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                              • DonkeyJote
                                All Star
                                • Jul 2003
                                • 9187

                                #615
                                Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

                                Jace isn't 30. But he's not 20 either. He's 25. There's still development there, but it's not like he's crazy young.

                                What tools does Peterson have? He's a career .270 hitter across all levels. That's probably about his ceiling, hell, probably above it given his .227 in the majors. Across all levels, he's averaged about 20 doubles and 5 hr per 600 plate appearances. So he doesn't really hit, and he has next to zero power. He can run? Well, really just in the low minors. Across double a, Triple A, and the majors, he's 30 for 49, just under 60%, which at the point where his running is probably hurting more than it helps. He's an average defender (.2 WAR) and I don't see that improving. He's a guy you can plug into a lineup at various times, hit him 7th or 8th, and he's not going to hurt you on a given day. He can play 2B or 3b, and he's athletic enough that he could likely play OF. I like Peterson, but if he is an everyday player on your team, that's a hole that needs to be filled. There's nothing beyond blind hope to suggest that he's going the develop beyond a .270/.360/.380 guy, and even that is quite optimistic.

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