Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

[elicoleman]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

Well this just sucks.

[ehh]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

Holy embarassment. I shut this one off early.


Oh well, time to finish my Crown on the rocks and head to the bar.

[Thrasha]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

What are the Yankees going to do?


When it rains it pores

[NYJets]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

Not when Kline got 4 for arguing a balk.

You can also thank Kline for bumping the umpire twice.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

There are major issues in NY. It seems like some people just are not cut out to pitch there, Johnson included until proven otherwise.

Yes, because the teeming hot pressure of the city must be getting to all these pitchers. The legendary ghosts have cast a spell upon these new pitchers as they haven't proven themselves as TRUE YANKEES.

There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for Yankees pitchers blowing goats the last few years: the defense behind them is absolutely horrid. I'd argue that choosing to trade+extend Randy Johnson over Carlos Beltran is a move that will cost this team dearly for years down the road. You guys desperately needed a centerfielder, and Beltran is one of, if not THE, best in the game defensively. When you factor in his solid offensive production, you're looking at a guy who would have a much larger impact than Big Eunuch over 162 games.

Thankfully for the rest of the AL, Georgie Porgie stomped and pounded his way into irrationally desiring Johnson. Well, now he has Johnson, and he's mediocre as hell. I'd argue the defense is a large reason why Yankees pitchers have sucked the last 2 years.

[ILLCHILL]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

Well, Quantrill was just traded for Darrel May and Tim Redding. They dont understand that getting younger doesn't consist of getting young useless arms.

[ehh]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for Yankees pitchers blowing goats the last few years: the defense behind them is absolutely horrid.

That's not even close to being an accurate statement.

[SPTO]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for Yankees pitchers blowing goats the last few years: the defense behind them is absolutely horrid..

The last few years the defense has been pretty good so you can't really blame them. The left side of the infield is pretty strong. Yes they haven't been the best in the field this year but Bernie Williams have made some pretty nice plays in the field this year. (Some of which cost my Jays some runs )

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

I'm personally ecstatic that idjits like the NY Yankees front office and their fanbase don't recognize the importance of evaluating defense like the Boston Red Sox (and most other franchises) do.

This just gives us even more of a competitive advantage over the Bronx. The Yankees can keep trotting in shiny and expensive new pitching signees year after year, and you shall continue to see them underperform mysteriously. Eventually, Mel Stottelmyre will get canned (and he does deserve it), but the actual players behind the pitcher seem to get none of the rap.

After a pitcher throws the ball, he does not have a large impact on what happens, it's up to the batter and the fielders (in most cases). The fielders have an enormous impact on a pitchers ERA (especially with guys who don't have lights out stuff, aka junk-ballers, or some sinkerball pitchers like Derek Lowe). A pitchers performance is tremendously dependent on his teammates. So, unless you can find a pitcher who can strike out 27 guys a game, you need to have solid defense behind you. In the Yankees case, they have negative defenders at most positions (and even Rodriguez is supposedly having a down year defensively from what I have heard).

I'm utterly astounded that you described Bernie Williams as having "made some nice plays" in the field this year. I don't think you're a Yankee fan, so that makes some sense, but for the record, Bernie Williams is having a historically poor defensive season. There is a giant fork sticking out of his back out there in center. He's literally an embarrassment to his own reputation from his prime, and I believe that most Yankee fans would agree. A good defensive centerfielder is extremely important in terms of the overall defensive efficiency of a team, (which led to my Carlos Beltran vs. RJ statement from above)...

Honestly, if the Yankees traded for Mike Cameron without losing Gary Sheffield, I would be more scared of them than I am right now. That's how good defensively he is. His bat sucks, but the Yankees problems are not their offense...He could bat 6th-8th and be a HUGE addition. Fortunately for me, I don't think the Yankees are smart enough to pull off this move.

[Armitage]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

Intentional walk, with two outs?

Bad, bad call.

[Gary Armida]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

I'm personally ecstatic that idjits like the NY Yankees front office and their fanbase don't recognize the importance of evaluating defense like the Boston Red Sox (and most other franchises) do.

This just gives us even more of a competitive advantage over the Bronx. The Yankees can keep trotting in shiny and expensive new pitching signees year after year, and you shall continue to see them underperform mysteriously. Eventually, Mel Stottelmyre will get canned (and he does deserve it), but the actual players behind the pitcher seem to get none of the rap.

After a pitcher throws the ball, he does not have a large impact on what happens, it's up to the batter and the fielders (in most cases). The fielders have an enormous impact on a pitchers ERA (especially with guys who don't have lights out stuff, aka junk-ballers, or some sinkerball pitchers like Derek Lowe). A pitchers performance is tremendously dependent on his teammates. So, unless you can find a pitcher who can strike out 27 guys a game, you need to have solid defense behind you. In the Yankees case, they have negative defenders at most positions (and even Rodriguez is supposedly having a down year defensively from what I have heard).

I'm utterly astounded that you described Bernie Williams as having "made some nice plays" in the field this year. I don't think you're a Yankee fan, so that makes some sense, but for the record, Bernie Williams is having a historically poor defensive season. There is a giant fork sticking out of his back out there in center. He's literally an embarrassment to his own reputation from his prime, and I believe that most Yankee fans would agree. A good defensive centerfielder is extremely important in terms of the overall defensive efficiency of a team, (which led to my Carlos Beltran vs. RJ statement from above)...

Honestly, if the Yankees traded for Mike Cameron without losing Gary Sheffield, I would be more scared of them than I am right now. That's how good defensively he is. His bat sucks, but the Yankees problems are not their offense...He could bat 6th-8th and be a HUGE addition. Fortunately for me, I don't think the Yankees are smart enough to pull off this move.

While I agree with you that Defense is hugely important and it is hurting the Yankees, I don't see your point about how the RedSox evaluate defense. No one, not even Bill James or the Moneyball people, can find a realible way to evaluate defense. Range factor is a tool, but if you read the James' abstract or even Moneyball, they will tell you there is no concrete way to measure defense. So yes, the Red Sox have a decent defense (yet many holes--Millar, Bellhorn, Manny at times), they are having a good season.

Bernie, one of my favorite players ever, is done as being a gold glove caliber centerfielder, but there was no way to see that. ARod was solid at third last year, and has regressed this year. How would someone evaluate that?
Finally, yes Cameron is a great centerfielder. Who is going to play right?, not that Sheff is all that good. You see, there still isn't a way to judge defense. That's why the gold glove is one of the worst awards in baseball--purely subjective.

It's also funny how the d is suddenly the problem. The Yankee defense has been poor for the past 5 years. Soriano, Knoblauch, Shane Spencer, etc. The difference is the pitching is not performing and the offense is station to station (but that's been the case for the past couple of years). If the pitching comes around, the Yankees will be right with your Sox.

[NYJets]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

While I agree with you that Defense is hugely important and it is hurting the Yankees, I don't see your point about how the RedSox evaluate defense. No one, not even Bill James or the Moneyball people, can find a realible way to evaluate defense. Range factor is a tool, but if you read the James' abstract or even Moneyball, they will tell you there is no concrete way to measure defense. So yes, the Red Sox have a decent defense (yet many holes--Millar, Bellhorn, Manny at times), they are having a good season.

I think what he's saying is the Red Sox realize the importance of defense, and is talking about how they improved their defense greatly in the middle of last season, even if it cost them a bit on offense.

Anyway, yes the defense is bad, at least in the outfield. But Randy Johnson has already given up as many homeruns this year as he did all of last year. Pavano has given up more. Defense isn't responsible for that. The main difference is that they aren't pitching well, not the players around them.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

Good points brought up by both of you. Just wanted to follow up with some things.

1. favre4vr, as you mentioned before, defense is extremely difficult to evaluate with methods that we in the public are aware of. From my understanding, the Red Sox (and other teams) have employees responsible for charting every single ball put in play that a defender has a chance to defend. How hard the ball was hit, the fielders position, how fast he gets to the ball, and other variables are measured here.
I'm nearly certain that the Red Sox have been working on method(s?) to properly empirically evaluate defense. We will never be aware of this, however, because they aren't just going to put out a press release stating "We, the Boston Red Sox, have devised a breakthrough new mechanism for evaluating defense! Here it is:". They would put themselves at a competitive disadvantage. So, it's difficult to see what is going on behind the scenes here, but I'm fairly certain that the Epstein front office realizes this is an important aspect of the game to research and has been working on solutions for a long time.

2. NYJets, I would argue that having strong defense behind a pitcher results in some tangible benefits for said pitcher. I believe that with the confidence of having vaccuum cleaners out in the field, the pitcher develops increased confidents to throw strikes, and not nibble around the corners. He feels that unless the hitter makes perfect contact on the ball, his fielders will find some way to get to the ball and record it as an out. This takes pressure off the pitcher and allows him to focus on playing his game, making pitcher's pitches, and focusing on getting ahead of batters.

Now, the converse of this is a pitcher with poor defense behind him. He is afraid of throwing pitches that run across the fat part of the plate, because his fielders probably won't get to it. He is forced to nibble and paint corners (BB rates increase). He is forced to throw more pitches due to errors and misrecorded potential outs. Everything is affected as a net result.

I could be wrong here, but I strongly believe that defense influences a pitcher in a huge way.

[ehh]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

Excellent outting by Wang tonight. Granted he wasn't overpowering and only had one 1-2-3 inning (that was his last oddly enough) but got outta trouble over and over again.

Good W, though the O was awful again today.

[elicoleman]

Re: Official New York Yankees Bleacher Creatures Team Thread

Finally, a win while scoring 3 runs or less.