Did We Get Bamboozled?

[aholbert32]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

Don't forget there are no NEW classic teams either

2k never said there would be new teams. Never even hinted at it.

[Rasco11]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

How come on release day this game played so much better? The CPU AI was tame compared to how relentless they are now, they even made (what seemed like human) mistakes at times, and many of the now present suction animations when driving were gone? Not only that, but I was getting POG highlights at the end of the game. Also, I never had this stupid player can't inbound the ball bug? Granted, gameplay still had some issues (on-ball defense difficulty, r stick sensitivity), but it was night and day better than how this game is now?

I don't get it: How do you make a game regress? Now we have to patch, a patch?!? Are we stuck with this garbage until Xmas (unless we remove patch as others have suggested...fine...whatever, shouldn't be the case). Hello? Buehler? 2k is crickets regarding any efforts to improve our experience, that we paid for!!!!!!!!!! I apologize for sounding worked up, but it is frustrating to feel you're not being heard. To to feel completely out of the loop? I believe this "feeling" is shared by a large portion of our community here.


Can't 2k tune the gameplay? I thought I remember reading one of the cool things (nextgen) was they didn't need "official" patches to change some stuff under the hood anymore?!? Again 2k, can you do this? Honest question I'd appreciate a response to. Just keep me in the loop? Here let's do a couple examples of how this could work:

Question: Hey 2k, Can you guys change players appearance/features this year, like Dirks now shorter hair, or adding the Morris bro' stats?

Answer: No, sorry, we don't have the capabilities nor the time to do this at the moment.

Question: Could you guys explain how POE changes impact gameplay?

Answer: glad you asked, here's a blog explaining all the options and their +/-'s



Where's a freaking roster/ratings update? Seriously, this is beyond a joke? Again, why the disconnect? A status update on what we can expect ever?

At the end of the day, all I want to do is (online or offline) attempt to play a simulation of the NBA game and not feel cheated! I would like to feel I "control" what I see play out on my tv. I would also like to pick a team and do a season mode, and have full customization at my disposal. Isn't that what this game and brand are all about? What happened? Why after 13 years of supporting you have you taken away what I loved about your game?!? When did the focus turn towards animating and creating the basketball version of 8 Mile that is MyPlayer? My opinion: If anything this "mode" should be DLC or an entirely separate gaming experience.

Sorry for the unorganized rant. I had to say it. I feel better. I hope this game returns to what I feel it should be at some point, I don't feel my expectations are out of line. I realize there is a lot involved with creating a foundation for future editions, etc. But, this still doesn't justify the lack of disconnect 2k has shown with this community pre 2k14 release and post. I'm sorry but Twitter hashtags and Facebook likes are about as transparent and disingenuous as it gets.

[midwestking100]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

2k never said there would be new teams. Never even hinted at it.

I know that, but it would've been nice if we had some new additions to play with instead of the same stale group.

[Sundown]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

Oh, so you knew from the start things like Player Roles were STILL broken?

Guys, no reason to take it out on LD2K. He's probably not twirling his evil mustache when talking about MyGM secretly knowing player roles were still problematic.

However, it would be nice for 2K to be more forthright and transparent with us as they used to be in the past. It really built some sense of trust.

Some of the other 2K guys seem to have more leeway in discussing issues and limitations of the game, probably because their primary responsibility isn't to sell the game. We appreciate that and we also appreciate that LD2K can't necessarily operate the same way.

Still, it would be nice to get more than hints and teasing because OS is a very different place from the twitter crowd. Evading certain questions about the game's limitations and only being effusive about features that might themselves have issues will tend to produce threads like this one.

And no, I didn't feel "bamboozled". Everything was mostly what I expected, because I learned to read between the lines. If there's silence, assume the worst. You'll be more right than wrong. However, there were definitely omissions that shocked even me-- like the inability to save replays or quick games, and the dropping of Defensive Settings without a hint, which I still don't agree with and still feel removes depth from half the game after having some time with POEs.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

This whole parsing of language - he lied! no I didn't! - is becoming a sideshow.

Marketing people represent and set expectations for the product. They set the hype meter high and left out a ton of information they knew would be relevant to many loyal customers.

The product is flawed, limited and (with VC) gougingly disrespectful and a bit exploitative to people who used to have those features included in their $60. Very many knowledgeable, loyal customers, who have been prime targets for the all the marketing, are unhappy, some pretty pissed.

That's it. That's all of it. LD2k, I get you want to defend your name here, as you're taking heat. You don't make the game, it's your job to promote it in the best possible light, and you did. But the bigger problem, for 2k, is a market, credibility and product problem. It's not really about you, but the stuff flying off the fan is coming at you because you're the public, personal face who set the expectations bar and omitted a lot of relevant info (aka, did your job).

No one here wants to hurl monkey poo at you. They just want the product to be better. They want the new modes to be reliably playable. They want historically core, popular features back that differentiated your product as the standard for sports games in the past (along with MLB The Show). And they want, at this point, a better response than "we're listening." It's not personal. It's business.

Meanwhile, more and more sites out there are catching up to the VC issue. I'm sure you've seen Reddit. You've got a problem there that will continue to spread if not addressed.

And guys, let's remember the rules, treat LD2k with respect (he doesn't have to post or visit), and for that matter, keep treating each other with respect.

[aholbert32]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I know that, but it would've been nice if we had some new additions to play with instead of the same stale group.

That isnt the point of this thread. This is about expectations people had based on what 2k said. This isnt a complaint thread about everything people think should be in the game.

[Phreak50]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

So why does this thread exist if you go and lock mine in the Live forum?


Both are complaints to do with being promised features that weren't delivered.


The Live thread has some sincere, constructive feedback.


:/

[VDusen04]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

This would be a lot easier to swallow if, again, they didn't patronize their fanbase constantly with the "We're listening," song & dance, yet release a product that speaks to the contrary. You can create as many feedback and improvement threads you want, the only thing that will be heard and acknowledged, comes from your pocket & is green. As long as they have the market cornered, get used to it. This is why, despite the fact that, while I abhor the series, Live is needed - why competition is needed. A monopoly is great for a business, but it is never a good thing for the consumer.

Right on. I opted to wait on my purchase until I saw how things really shook out (everything seemed really fishy), and I ultimately passed on both 2K's this year altogether (for the first time since 2K1), but I still don't appreciate how difficult it was to gather the correct information. I've assumed the marketing department is just doing their job (by building incredible hype), but isn't there a more respectable way? Are there marketing strategies out there that tend to place a greater emphasis on transparency? Or is any kind of transparency regarded as bad business?

I think it's true though, we would have been upset at omissions and directions one way or another. But I suppose a definitive answer from those listening pre-release may have been helpful, for the silence and dodging creates much confusion for potential consumers. As a result, instead of expecting the best, I was planning for the worst this year.

Regarding the market cornering, you're right on there as well. And it kind of bums me out. I haven't cared about NBA Live for years (though I believe I downloaded a demo I didn't entirely mind around 2009 or 2010). But lately, I've totally began to notice the importance of having that competition in place. Unfortunately, Live still isn't close to being that competition, so I sort of feel a little helpless - at the mercy of wherever this 2K ship chooses to go. And right now, it's heading in a direction I find most unbecoming. As a result, I find myself basketball-game-less, and there are no winners there.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

Regarding the market cornering, you're right on there as well. And it kind of bums me out. I haven't cared about NBA Live for years (though I believe I downloaded a demo I didn't entirely mind around 2009 or 2010). But lately, I've totally began to notice the importance of having that competition in place. Unfortunately, Live still isn't close to being that competition, so I sort of feel a little helpless - at the mercy of wherever this 2K ship chooses to go. And right now, it's heading in a direction I find most unbecoming. As a result, I find myself basketball-game-less, and there are no winners there.

What has 2K done to "corner the market"? Be too good at what they're doing that they're lapping their competition? No, he isn't right because this situation isn't a monopoly - it's far from it:

mo·nop·o·ly [muh-nop-uh-lee]

1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly.
2. an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.
3. the exclusive possession or control of something.
4. something that is the subject of such control, as a commodity or service.
5. a company or group that has such control.

How is this situation any different from MLB the Show? The NBA license is completely open competitively; any developer can make a fully licensed NBA game if they choose. It's not [whoever makes Sony's baseball game]'s fault they're good at what they do that no one else is jumping in to make a game. Or the economics aren't right for another company to jump in.

You're doing what is your right as a consumer - choosing not buy the product. If enough people feel as you do, they'll also not buy the product and it will exact change. The problem imo is you don't accept you're in the minority and that you choosing not to buy the product may not mean much in the long run because most people don't feel as you do. I've said it a billion times - my fave sport is NFL football. Now, with Madden there IS a monopoly - no one but EA can make NFL games. And I feel I have the right to complain till my lungs get tired. But after a while, I just accepted I'm in the minority - the game isn't what I want it to be so I choose not to purchase it. On some level you have to accept that your way of viewing things is the minority view.

EDIT: Just wanted to reiterize that I'm not saying people shouldn't complain; far from it. Just saying that some of the complaints should come with the understanding that they're from a minority point of view

I shudder to think what's going to be expected of 2K next year to be honest. Already people are building expectations that they're going to "get everything they had last gen" in the next gen game. In next year's game. All the while expecting the last gen game to improve by leaps and bounds - only for neither title to warrant a purchase in some of your eyes. I know the perception that gets pushed is EA/Live's dev team is inept and that's why there's no competition, but maybe 2K deserves credit in just being really really good at what they're doing, even if you don't like it. Maybe it's not that The Show's competition is inept, maybe the guys making The Show are really really good at what they're doing.

Either way just had to make a comment about this inference that the situation's a monopoly. It's not.

[VDusen04]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

What has 2K done to "corner the market"? Be too good at what they're doing that they're lapping their competition? No, he isn't right because this situation isn't a monopoly - it's far from it:

mo·nop·o·ly [muh-nop-uh-lee]

1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly.
2. an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.
3. the exclusive possession or control of something.
4. something that is the subject of such control, as a commodity or service.
5. a company or group that has such control.

How is this situation any different from MLB the Show? The NBA license is completely open competitively; any developer can make a fully licensed NBA game if they choose. It's not [whoever makes Sony's baseball game]'s fault they're good at what they do that no one else is jumping in to make a game. Or the economics aren't right for another company to jump in.

You're doing what is your right as a consumer - choosing not buy the product. If enough people feel as you do, they'll also not buy the product and it will exact change. The problem imo is you don't accept you're in the minority and that you choosing not to buy the product may not mean much in the long run because most people don't feel as you do. I've said it a billion times - my fave sport is NFL football. Now, with Madden there IS a monopoly - no one but EA can make NFL games. And I feel I have the right to complain till my lungs get tired. But after a while, I just accepted I'm in the minority - the game isn't what I want it to be so I choose not to purchase it. On some level you have to accept that your way of viewing things is the minority view.

I shudder to think what's going to be expected of 2K next year to be honest. Already people are building expectations that they're going to "get everything they had last gen" in the next gen game. In next year's game. All the while expecting the last gen game to improve by leaps and bounds - only for neither title to warrant a purchase in some of your eyes. I know the perception that gets pushed is EA/Live's dev team is inept and that's why there's no competition, but maybe 2K deserves credit in just being really really good at what they're doing, even if you don't like it. Maybe it's not that The Show's competition is inept, maybe the guys making The Show are really really good at what they're doing.

Either way just had to make a comment about this inference that the situation's a monopoly. It's not.

Please allow me to clarify, for I see where my words may have left things open to interpretation or flatly suggested something other than what I was intending. I do not believe NBA 2K is a monopoly. What I was attempting to convey was my desire to have multiple feasible options.

In 2001, I was also in the minority, as someone who did not enjoy the NBA Live series any longer. It was great to have a legitimate, simulation alternative to try out back then (NBA 2K) to see if another brand may better suit my desires.

It seems you interpreted my previous post as if I were blaming NBA 2K for other companies no longer making legitimate NBA video game products. That is not the case. I just wish other feasible options still existed, so maybe there was more of a chance for a game to meet my needs and allow me to purchase and enjoy a 2014 NBA basketball simulation.

I've accepted I may be in the minority. Also, I've accepted that being in the minority does not mean I don't have a voice. Sometimes the minority makes no sense. And sometimes the minority makes more sense than the majority voice. What harm comes from spending ten minutes during lunch to state my displeasure with the current state of affairs of a product I've loyally followed for over ten years? I find 2K's swing compelling & interesting, and if none of those upset with the product ever spoke up (the minority), then who would?

[luda06]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I just want to be able to practice plays and free throws, have my settings save, and make individual defensive adjustments.

I guess 2K forgets about the little guys like me.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

What harm comes from spending ten minutes during lunch to state my displeasure with the current state of affairs of a product I've loyally followed for over ten years? I find 2K's swing compelling & interesting, and if none of those upset with the product ever spoke up (the minority), then who would?

Before you said this I needed to clarify myself that I didn't mean to give the impression that people shouldn't voice their displeasure with the game. And just to not get anything twisted, I've agreed with/cosigned/shared your view on things like how the online game shouldn't affect the offline game, etc. (I HATE those online guys... but I digress - of course I'm JUST KIDDING).

I just had to comment on the monopoly thing. Because a lot of times if nothing's said, then that's the perception that gets pushed. And that falsehood is particularly galling to me because I lost being able to enjoy playing my favorite sport because of a real monopolistic situation, regardless of whether it's EA or/and the NFL's fault. But I also think it's important that people keep in mind when they're calling things unplayable, horrible, inexcusable, etc. Because I wonder if EA signed the NBA to an exclusive license tomorrow, how many of those previously unplayable/horrible/unforgiveable situations in NBA2K would suddenly become tolerable.

[Vni]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I just want to be able to practice plays and free throws, have my settings save, and make individual defensive adjustments.

I guess 2K forgets about the little guys like me.

You don't know what's good in life. Just play MyCareer and meet Demarcus Cousins instead.

[manustyle90]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

So next gen is a super graphics and super MyRpg bull**** version of current gen

[Glenn33]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I don't feel bamboozled at all. I play it every day...and will do so until The Show drops.