Did We Get Bamboozled?

[Gosens6]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I think that's the big question. Are these weird hiccups, like ESPN NBA Basketball 2004, or is this a long term direction change? I hope it's not the latter, but I have a feeling it might be.

The unfortunate part here is there's no longer a viable basketball simulation alternative if 2K really does continue down a lame path in certain regards. If 2K continues pursuing VC, movie storylines, forced online connectivity for offline matters, and limited customization, we don't have anywhere else to go - we're just out of luck.

I wonder if this is one of the unintended consequences of NBA Live's downfall. Whereas 2K was able to hang their hat as the realistic, simulation-based alternative to Live's looser product, now it seems 2K's attempting to wear both hats: simulation and mass appeal (which aren't always one in the same).

But to go back to the direct topic at hand, I think it'd be wise for all to make educated decisions regarding their purchase next year. The hype is going to be there. People in charge at 2K are going to be touting all sorts of new aspects. I can already imagine their platform: "We didn't have the time to include all we wanted last year but now with a full year to focus, we've added everything you've ever wanted. We got back to our off-court simulation roots." And maybe there'll be some truth to such claims, but folks are probably going to want to be a little more cautious about such words.

That's the thing, some of the decisions don't even make sense. Like, what makes forcing us to be connected to them at all time just to play our saves a smart business or creative decision? How does that benefit them? Because it certainly doesn't benefit us.

What's the point of removing being able to play any game in MyGM? What's the point of not being able to at least play co-op in game in MyGM? Why can't we even do that in Season mode? Why can't we control multiple teams in SEASON mode? It's a one year mode, with none of the interactions and we still can only control one team, and not play any other games on the schedule.

What's the point of removing CAP? Once again, how do they benefit financially or creatively from that decision? It's like they purposely left all these things out for no foreseeable reason.

Do they make money from not allowing us to create players? Do they make money from not allowing us to save rosters? To basically do ANYTHING creative? I don't get it.

[VDusen04]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

That's the thing, some of the decisions don't even make sense. Like, what makes forcing us to be connected to them at all time just to play our saves a smart business or creative decision? How does that benefit them? Because it certainly doesn't benefit us.

What's the point of removing being able to play any game in MyGM? What's the point of not being able to at least play co-op in game in MyGM? Why can't we even do that in Season mode? Why can't we control multiple teams in SEASON mode? It's a one year mode, with none of the interactions and we still can only control one team, and not play any other games on the schedule.

What's the point of removing CAP? Once again, how do they benefit financially or creatively from that decision? It's like they purposely left all these things out for no foreseeable reason.

Do they make money from not allowing us to create players? Do they make money from not allowing us to save rosters? To basically do ANYTHING creative? I don't get it.

I'm with you there. If I had to guess, at least some of the missing customization will return next year, and I believe those returning aspects will be greatly trumpeted ("See, 2K/we do listen") but I'm not convinced they'll adjust the core of their developing issues (VC, online, forced storylines, trading realism for fantasy).

That said, if 2K did somehow gain their off-court wits about them and return to what made them so great in the first place, I'd fist pump in triumph. It just seems more and more unlikely with each passing day.

[dramachild11]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

The shift towards fantasy basketball started with the introduction of legends an myplayer.. These modes are wildly popular among casual gamers and must have convinced the suits at 2k (and I don't think there's a huge divide between them and the devs) that the direction of the series needed to focus more on the fantasy/RPG aspect cause that had influenced the sales increase the most.... Mycareer, mygm, Lebron path to greatness etc are just natural extensions of that thought process... More fantasy an less realism, so now you get story lines an conversations and whatever else that might work it's way into these new modes down the line... In the last few years how many significant upgrades were made to association compared to myplayer or any other new mode that was trotted out? In the player roles need to be patched thread it was stated that customization was removed on PURPOSE because it adversely affected the myplayer mygm storylines, so removal of the option to keep your season or association as realistic as possible was sacrificed for the fantasy RPG direction that 2K is taking this series... In short, unless EA steps it's game up this is probably the direction we all have to live with

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I personally wasn't bamboozled...

Going through my library and popping in 2K6 a couple months back brought me down to earth and reminded me what I could be in for as far as my initial next gen experience....even then, some of the things 2k decided not to put in the game surprised me...but I can't say i'm too shocked...I think I'm more surprised with the with all the next gen technical difficulties...but that's another thread...Czars #nextgenadvice (I may have that hashtag wrong) was a really good read, and it's kind've changed my approach...I really enjoy NG 2k's gameplay & MyCAREER...that's really all I play...I get what fun I can out of it...

I didn't sale my 360, or quit delete my Association in current gen 2k...I still play it regularly (especially now since my NG 2k is literally broken) in anticipation NG might not be a complete package...so I am getting my basketball gaming fill this season either way...2K14 CG is still a blast to play as well

I could feign outrage about VC or the direction 2k'd taking etc. but i've come to the conclusion that I really don't care to dwell on it...somewhere a long the way between all the debates etc. I forgot how to just...game..

Just my take on the topic, not saying anyone should adopt my attitude...just how I feel on the subject at hand! I hope all you guys concerns and concern about the direction of the series etc. are addressed next year! Happy gaming fellas!

[VDusen04]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

The shift towards fantasy basketball started with the introduction of legends an myplayer.. These modes are wildly popular among casual gamers and must have convinced the suits at 2k (and I don't think there's a huge divide between them and the devs) that the direction of the series needed to focus more on the fantasy/RPG aspect cause that had influenced the sales increase the most.... Mycareer, mygm, Lebron path to greatness etc are just natural extensions of that thought process... More fantasy an less realism, so now you get story lines an conversations and whatever else that might work it's way into these new modes down the line... In the last few years how many significant upgrades were made to association compared to myplayer or any other new mode that was trotted out? In the player roles need to be patched thread it was stated that customization was removed on PURPOSE because it adversely affected the myplayer mygm storylines, so removal of the option to keep your season or association as realistic as possible was sacrificed for the fantasy RPG direction that 2K is taking this series... In short, unless EA steps it's game up this is probably the direction we all have to live with

I do not feel legends should be lumped in with MyPlayer, for classic teams are real teams made of real players that played in the real NBA. Simulating their games is not much of a separation from simulating current team games.

And truth be told, I thought the original idea of MyPlayer was still compatible with 2K's vision. 2K10's MyPlayer introduction basically played a game of "What if you were placed in our simulation basketball environment and tried to survive and thrive". The difference now is the MyPlayer simulation basketball environment has been eschewed in favor of a fantasy world where DeMarcus Cousins is a mime, rivals are made out of thin air, and the fictional currency with which you're paid is enough to buy an accessory or two per year.

I think it's very possible to have a fantasy element to simulation games. Building upon the D-League, summer league, training camp, free agency, and path variance all would have been great ways to flesh out a realistic MyPlayer mode. Instead, 2K doubled down on the fantasy.

[Vni]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I've got to admit, I thought you were just hating on 2K at first but you were right the whole time.

I'am no 2K ***** and I've actually been praising NBA 2K14 current gen. By far their best effort and a very polished and enjoyable out of the box product.

I just despise how they promote their game. It's terrible. They under promote some great aspect of the game and overhype features that don't work or don't deserve it. The kind of stuff like what Jwill was told at Vegas: "A mind blowing mode that so good that will make you forget about crew"... Something along thoses lines. Yeah The Park? That laggy mess that hasn't even reached beta version's stage yet.

What has mycareer became exactly? When is it that there will be quick time events in the cinematics to punch Demarcus Cousins? Will we still be able to switch control schemes in the option menus for free?

Who designed theses menus? How does this happen? Why taking off features that 2K themselves made a standard in the series year after year, game after game?

NBA 2K is becoming a parody of what it used to be and it's just sad.

[dramachild11]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I personally wasn't bamboozled...

Going through my library and popping in 2K6 a couple months back brought me down to earth and reminded me what I could be in for as far as my initial next gen experience....even then, some of the things 2k decided not to put in the game surprised me...but I can't say i'm too shocked...I think I'm more surprised with the with all the next gen technical difficulties...but that's another thread...Czars #nextgenadvice (I may have that hashtag wrong) was a really good read, and it's kind've changed my approach...I really enjoy NG 2k's gameplay & MyCAREER...that's really all I play...I get what fun I can out of it...

I didn't sale my 360, or quit delete my Association in current gen 2k...I still play it regularly (especially now since my NG 2k is literally broken) in anticipation NG might not be a complete package...so I am getting my basketball gaming fill this season either way...2K14 CG is still a blast to play as well

I could feign outrage about VC or the direction 2k'd taking etc. but i've come to the conclusion that I really don't care to dwell on it...somewhere a long the way between all the debates etc. I forgot how to just...game..

Just my take on the topic, not saying anyone should adopt my attitude...just how I feel on the subject at hand! I hope all you guys concerns and concern about the direction of the series etc. are addressed next year! Happy gaming fellas!

I can't play the 360 version anymore cause the ps4 version looks an plays so much better lol I feel like such a skank saying that... I wasn't bamboozled or fooled by the game but I am surprised that such radical changes were made an nothing was said about it pre-release

[Gosens6]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

All these points are bad enough, but then when they change the gameplay through the patch, and don't even tell us what was changed is also something else that's ridiculous.

2K has a nasty habit of changing things and not telling us about them, or what they even do. Playing this game pre-patch is significantly different and better than the gameplay after the patch.

So now, not only is everything we love gone, along with an unplayable MyGM mode, they've actually regressed in the gameplay department since the release of the game. Why? I wish I knew.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

All these points are bad enough, but then when they change the gameplay through the patch, and don't even tell us what was changed is also something else that's ridiculous.

2K has a nasty habit of changing things and not telling us about them, or what they even do. Playing this game pre-patch is significantly different and better than the gameplay after the patch.

So now, not only is everything we love gone, along with an unplayable MyGM mode, they've actually regressed in the gameplay department since the release of the game. Why? I wish I knew.

I'm sure we can only expect more tuning and changes without notice as they proceed to migrate all of the game's management into the cloud. Not all of it will be via patches.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I can't play the 360 version anymore cause the ps4 version looks an plays so much better lol I feel like such a skank saying that... I wasn't bamboozled or fooled by the game but I am surprised that such radical changes were made an nothing was said about it pre-release

Haha...I am still finishing up some games on the original XBox so I guess it's a little easier to deal with for me...

and I agree, I was surprised at some things too

[dramachild11]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

I do not feel legends should be lumped in with MyPlayer, for classic teams are real teams made of real players that played in the real NBA. Simulating their games is not much of a separation from simulating current team games.

And truth be told, I thought the original idea of MyPlayer was still compatible with 2K's vision. 2K10's MyPlayer introduction basically played a game of "What if you were placed in our simulation basketball environment and tried to survive and thrive". The difference now is the MyPlayer simulation basketball environment has been eschewed in favor of a fantasy world where DeMarcus Cousins is a mime, rivals are made out of thin air, and the fictional currency with which you're paid is enough to buy an accessory or two per year.

I think it's very possible to have a fantasy element to simulation games. Building upon the D-League, summer league, training camp, free agency, and path variance all would have been great ways to flesh out a realistic MyPlayer mode. Instead, 2K doubled down on the fantasy.

The thing about the legends mode when it first appeared had me as amped as anybody, I'd always wanted the ability to play with past players and your definitely right that it's not exactly a departure from simulation ball... The reason I included it was that to me it signified the first step that the total simulation experience of modern day ball wasn't enough for them so instead of improving that mode they went in the direction to try an rope in as many casual gamers as they could

[Gosens6]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

The thing about the legends mode when it first appeared had me as amped as anybody, I'd always wanted the ability to play with past players and your definitely right that it's not exactly a departure from simulation ball... The reason I included it was that to me it signified the first step that the total simulation experience of modern day ball wasn't enough for them so instead of improving that mode they went in the direction to try an rope in as many casual gamers as they could

I gotta respectfully disagree with that one. Adding in legends and the whole Legends Mode they had was a godsend for older guys who love basketball.

Most casual gamers wanted NOTHING to do with the legends outside of MJ. Legends was a huge step for the fans of old school basketball.

[deathsai]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

The entire game has been neutered, and we are slowly starting to see 2k turn into EA.

[VDusen04]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

The thing about the legends mode when it first appeared had me as amped as anybody, I'd always wanted the ability to play with past players and your definitely right that it's not exactly a departure from simulation ball... The reason I included it was that to me it signified the first step that the total simulation experience of modern day ball wasn't enough for them so instead of improving that mode they went in the direction to try an rope in as many casual gamers as they could

I believe the inclusion of legends only solidified the simulation experience, in my opinion. Not only were legends included, but great detail was paid to their replication, going as far as to include authentic real-life filters for each respective era. That's a wonderful simulation addition in my opinion, and only deepened 2K's NBA simulation scope and immersion.

2K has delved into modes that stretched beyond modern day ball for years. Starting in 2004, they introduced a mode called 24/7. Some people liked it, some not. But it was a standalone mode and did not seep into 2K's simulation experience. The difference now is the casual feel has spread like a virus throughout much of the game, as opposed to being relegated to a singular separate mode.

[apollooff320]

Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

The graphics are great minus the court and uni colors being off, but even on court game play can be bad since you see a lot of the same problems from current gen. That's why I scratch my head when ppl say on the court game play is great. Yes it plays different but it still has a lot of the same issues from current gen. I do like that we see more foul calls being called besides reach in, shooting, and over the back. I jumped out of the chair when I saw the CPU set a bad screen.

All I play is quick matches which is the only thing that is playable, and now will be waiting for at least the 3rd patch and see what happens. If none of the game modes become playable I'm selling the game and probably just pick up Live when it gets cheaper; since I don't hear anything wrong with their modes. All I want to do is play a few seasons and make a few trades without a crazy amount of problems. I defiantly won't beta be testing this game next year on release day. I sure in the hell won't pay attention to paid off and fanboy reviewers. This game should have much lower review ratings with all these problems.