So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

[MrWrestling3]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

When you get down to it, it seems like a clash of styles/philosophies.

On one side you have people who see it as being a simulation of real life sports (which it has been marketed as), thus the follow the rules and conventions of basketball and this is what they expect from the game to be entertained....position play,plays being run, ball movement,etc and so forth.

On the other hand, you have people who view it almost purely as just a video game; to them rules and other conventions of basketball are lesser most, what they expect from the game to be entertained are highlight moments you see on Sportcenter or an And 1 tape.....crazy dunks,flashy dimes, highlight rejections, and so forth.To be fair, it has also marketed as this as well.

Unfortunately when brought together under the online umbrella these two styles don't "play" together very well.

2K itself has said and is now basically saying they are trying to make the game accessible to as many people as possible; unfortunately in trying to please everyone it seems like they've progressively turned out a product which is unsure if it wants to sports simulation or arcade style fun.

As long as that is the case, the debate i am seeing here will exist in some fashion or the other,it could only be addressed by 2K itself definitively committing itself to one philosophy or the other.

[HowDareI]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

How would setting height and ratings caps hinder game development? Out of all they do in terms of changing park gameplay it would take the least amount of time by far. Weight should be important to strength/speed balance too.

This is a speed cap issue. Scaled size ratings aren't necessary they would be the same speed as if they were capped anyway....

I never said it would hinder anything, but I said gameplay is more important than sitting there for hours trying to figure out how to balance the game by setting caps on height or ratings.
It's easier and more productive to get the defense right first. IMO it fixes a lot of the problems I see.

We never seen ratings like that in 2K so to say they aren't necessary is just your opinion. A 6'2 guard with 99 speed/quickness should be a lot more nimble and agile than a 6'10 forward with 95 speed/quickness. Have you ever seen the way a guy like John Wall gets up the court? Even Tony Wroten leaves the quickest forwards in the dust on a break.

[MrBallaBoy21]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

I never said it would hinder anything, but I said gameplay is more important than sitting there for hours trying to figure out how to balance the game by setting caps on height or ratings.
It's easier and more productive to get the defense right first. IMO it fixes a lot of the problems I see.

Again I ask, why do you think setting caps is so complicated? Look at the tallest players at their position in history, done. Put in a height/speed/weight ratio, done. Offense playstyles have harsher caps on defense, done. Defensive playstyles have harsher caps on offense, done.

You don't need a computer to do it. All you need is a piece of paper and a calculator. With a group of people this is easily a days worth of work in a development cycle that takes months.

We never seen ratings like that in 2K so to say they aren't necessary is just your opinion. A 6'2 guard with 99 speed/quickness should be a lot more nimble and agile than a 6'10 forward with 95 speed/quickness. Have you ever seen the way a guy like John Wall gets up the court? Even Tony Wroten leaves the quickest forwards in the dust on a break.

It's pointless. If a 6'10 PF with 95 speed runs like he has 75 speed then just put the cap at 75....

[HowDareI]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Again I ask, why do you think setting caps is so complicated? Look at the tallest players at their position in history, done. Put in a height/speed/weight ratio, done. Offense playstyles have harsher caps on defense, done. Defensive playstyles have harsher caps on offense, done.

You don't need a computer to do it. All you need is a piece of paper and a calculator. With a group of people this is easily a days worth of work in a development cycle that takes months.


It's pointless. If a 6'10 PF with 95 speed runs like he has 75 speed then just put the cap at 75....

Why do you keep acting like I'm saying it's complicated? You're arguing just to argue. I keep saying gameplay needs to come first before worrying about capping stats and all that.
If they can't get the core fundamentals on defense down then caps still won't matter. Cuz as it is now a 75 speed big man doing a zig zag can still do all that and the step back with hesitation 3 against a 95 speed point and have success...

So the point is still work on the gameplay FIRST...it's that simple.

And speed is different between different types of guys it's not hard to grasp that either. Lebron at his speed is a different type of fast compared to a guy like Ty Lawson but I bet their speeds are close in rating to eachother.
Lebron has a powerful kinda speed whereas Lawson is agile.

But yet a center can keep up with smaller guys on a break because their speeds are similar. Nothing to do with caps because they already have a 30 point difference.

It's been like that for years, it's nothing to do with overall ratings and it has everything to do with the core gameplay.

[MrBallaBoy21]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Why do you keep acting like I'm saying it's complicated? You're arguing just to argue. I keep saying gameplay needs to come first before worrying about capping stats and all that.
If they can't get the core fundamentals on defense down then caps still won't matter. Cuz as it is now a 75 speed big man doing a zig zag can still do all that and the step back with hesitation 3 against a 95 speed point and have success...

So the point is still work on the gameplay FIRST...it's that simple.

The way you say they should focus on gameplay first makes me think that you think they shouldn't bother capping. Since I think you don't want them to spend time capping how good MyPlayers can be it makes me think that you think the process will take away substantial time from improving gameplay.

I think they can do both without gameplay advancements being hindered.

And speed is different between different types of guys it's not hard to grasp that either. Lebron at his speed is a different type of fast compared to a guy like Ty Lawson but I bet their speeds are close in rating to eachother.
Lebron has a powerful kinda speed whereas Lawson is agile.

So by 2k15s rating standards, what speed do you think Lawson and Lebron should have?

But yet a center can keep up with smaller guys on a break because their speeds are similar. Nothing to do with caps because they already have a 30 point difference.

It's been like that for years, it's nothing to do with overall ratings and it has everything to do with the core gameplay.

The difference in speed between players was off whack in 2k12 but I haven't seen a problem with it since. I have a 77 rated SF with 70 something speed and everyone is much faster than me. I also have a 77 rated C with 50 speed and I'm like a zombie on the court.

[TaylorBoi]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

To me, 2k had improved greatly from 2k14 as far as being balance , well until patch 4 came. So I know 2k is capable of addressing it.

And why would I create one, stoop down to their level of abusing stuff? The way they are playing now will be surely address in the next game for sure. I will continue to play legit, I will win some and probably lose more to those type of players. I will quit playing altogether before I resort to playing like them or playing with those type of players. I want 2k to be great and so I will call it out on its problems and a effort to improve the game. If you think not talking about the problems because you can deal with it, will make the game better that's on you. I can deal with it as well as I continue to play the game(This actually an improvement from 2k11 8'11 players) but it doesn't mean I won't provide feedback for the game.

I see you fail to mention the biggest thing to me, quick high releases, that can't get block by normal size players as well as being hardly faze by defenders.

What level are you stooping to? Just because someone makes a 7' SF doesn't mean they are exploiting the game or not playing legit. The position doesn't matter it all comes down to the player and how he plays the game. That's what make a person legit or not. I never automatically assume someone is not legit because of their position...that's stupid. Like I said earlier people will just migrate to the best position in 2K16 if the issues are fixed. You guys will end up complaining about the lack of variety online if this happens.

Quick high releases can easily be defended man. If you just run towards/run into a player 2K considers that a contested shot. Considering how many people still don't have deadeye, I don't see an issue here whatsoever. Just because someone is tall doesn't mean they shouldn't have an option of having a quick release...that's stupid. Seems like you just suck at the game and you want it your way bruh.

[Dlee3]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

What level are you stooping to? Just because someone makes a 7' SF doesn't mean they are exploiting the game or not playing legit. The position doesn't matter it all comes down to the player and how he plays the game. That's what make a person legit or not. I never automatically assume someone is not legit because of their position...that's stupid. Like I said earlier people will just migrate to the best position in 2K16 if the issues are fixed. You guys will end up complaining about the lack of variety online if this happens.

Quick high releases can easily be defended man. If you just run towards/run into a player 2K considers that a contested shot. Considering how many people still don't have deadeye, I don't see an issue here whatsoever. Just because someone is tall doesn't mean they shouldn't have an option of having a quick release...that's stupid. Seems like you just suck at the game and you want it your way bruh.

I really don't understand how you say 7 foot SF is legit? I really think you the one who are playing cheesy as hell. Do you not understand thats an whole advantage over normal size players?? . Adding caps will absolutely make a variety. If a squad makes a team that's only focus on shooting, they will be at a whole disadvantage. Who will play defense, who will get rebounds, who will be the inside guy? Everybody won't eventually be good at everything.

I don't know what system you on but stepback corner 3 (a shot that goes in 90% of the time) is a norm on xbox . Its to the point where I dont even get good shot defense anymore when I clearly contested nor do I get allow a man to score. You can't do that will regular size players. I will love to play you and we can find out who really suck.

[TaylorBoi]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

I really don't understand how you say 7 foot SF is legit? I really think you the one who are playing cheesy as hell. Do you not understand thats an whole advantage over normal size players?? . Adding caps will absolutely make a variety. If a squad makes a team that's only focus on shooting, they will be at a whole disadvantage. Who will play defense, who will get rebounds, who will be the inside guy? Everybody won't eventually be good at everything.

I don't know what system you on but stepback corner 3 (a shot that goes in 90% of the time) is a norm on xbox . Its to the point where I dont even get good shot defense anymore when I clearly contested nor do I get allow a man to score. You can't do that will regular size players. I will love to play you and we can find out who really suck.

We clearly have two different meanings of the word Cheesy. I'd never call someone cheesy due to the fact that he or she has a 7' Small Forward. It's not the position, it's the way that person plays the game. When you go into Stage/High Rollers...you see CHEESE. People who left/right, do the box out glitch, use Crossovers 4,10,16 etc. That's a perfect example of cheese IMO.

Really don't feel like going back and fourth with ya brodie. If you're on Xbox 1 add IP IR O B L E M. That's my gamertag. I rep Sunset. We can play MyPark or JRC it doesn't matter to me. Bring your squad.

[JUSTlFIED]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

My view is unpopular but limits should be but it places. Skills should be put into 3 Great, Good, and Average rating system (One selection per). Im talking your online character (offline should have no limits)

Lets say (Im typing this off the head, so its just a general Idea):

Outside Offense (midrange-3point range) (with ball), Inside Offense (post up to the elbow)(offense with ball), Defense (and offense without ball) are the 3 Main categories. Stat rate depends on height, weight, position.

At the creation point you have to choose to be great in one thing, good in one, and average in the last.

The great category attributes can be raised to 90-95 (again depend on H,W,P)

The good category attributes can be raised to 84-89 (again depend on H,W,P)

The Average category attributes can be raised to 73-79 (again depend on H,W,P)

That way you cant have a All Around Beast (In the My Park, JRC modes), and it forces team roles, cooperation.


Lets say you choose Great for defense (offense with out ball) but Average for outside offense, and your team has the ball:

You will have a player that can move around the court fast, get in position faster, have the hands to catch flashy passes (deep passes), set great picks,etc, however with the ball in their hands, they are not ideal to bring the ball up the court, they are slower when dribbling because their ball handling is low (kills the zig zag crap), and the 3 point shot is sub-par, etc.



Thats just a quick thought.

Just to add on. Online MyPark mode really needs to be "video gamey" when it comes to attributes.

Leave offline mode, and head to head online as Sim.

What I mean by "video gamey" your attribute/perk selection needs to come with both reward AND risk (as stated many times in this thread).

A perk that gives you clear advantage in one attribute, should give you a clear disadvantage in another.

For example, if you want the Tenacious Rebounder perk, your perimeter defense should suffer.

If you want flashy passer and all the dribble move perks, you should not be able to equip dead eye, limitless range (forcing you to be either a pass first, or shoot first PG)

etc.

[Dlee3]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

We clearly have two different meanings of the word Cheesy. I'd never call someone cheesy due to the fact that he or she has a 7' Small Forward. It's not the position, it's the way that person plays the game. When you go into Stage/High Rollers...you see CHEESE. People who left/right, do the box out glitch, use Crossovers 4,10,16 etc. That's a perfect example of cheese IMO.

Really don't feel like going back and fourth with ya brodie. If you're on Xbox 1 add IP IR O B L E M. That's my gamertag. I rep Sunset. We can play MyPark or JRC it doesn't matter to me. Bring your squad.

I have no problem with those, its the 7 ft shooting thats kills me.

You been going back and forth with me for the longest lol but I lost majority of my people due to patch 4. So i don't have a full team. I was talking about a regular game homie. I'll add you though, DLeeVC

[HowDareI]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

The way you say they should focus on gameplay first makes me think that you think they shouldn't bother capping. Since I think you don't want them to spend time capping how good MyPlayers can be it makes me think that you think the process will take away substantial time from improving gameplay.

I think they can do both without gameplay advancements being hindered.


So by 2k15s rating standards, what speed do you think Lawson and Lebron should have?


The difference in speed between players was off whack in 2k12 but I haven't seen a problem with it since. I have a 77 rated SF with 70 something speed and everyone is much faster than me. I also have a 77 rated C with 50 speed and I'm like a zombie on the court.

No quite the opposite honestly. At a certain point there needs to be a cap, or at least certain stats that force caps:

A center with max strength shouldn't be able to get an 85 speed. That's like Dwight running a break with more speed than Anthony Davis...come on.
Conversely a center with max speed (shouldn't even be 85 but that's another issue) shouldn't have 99 strength. There needs to be sacrifices.

You shouldn't be able to be a gigantic ballhandler and shooter and scorer...certain things need to make others suffer.

Honestly I think speed and quickness need to really be differentiated. Ty Lawson is both fast and agile. Lebron is fast, but again he's 6'8 250 it's hard to be agile and move side to side with no one able to get in front. (how many charges does he get called for because he's barreling down and someone's actually brave enough to take one?)

A quick point can turn left and right like a mouse while a fast forward can get down the court quickly but not move side to side.

It's too easy to move side to side with the ball (zig zag) with basically anyone.

And it's really more a problem when you play modes with a lot of maxed out guys and stars. Online everyone's maxed, so all the big men are running step for step with you...so either speed needs to be different for a huge center or they need to cap their speed significantly.
Same on My Team, all the star big men are fast and can keep up on breaks it's ridiculous. Even the "fast" centers in the NBA are no match for 99% of pg's in a race.

[MrBallaBoy21]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Honestly I think speed and quickness need to really be differentiated. Ty Lawson is both fast and agile. Lebron is fast, but again he's 6'8 250 it's hard to be agile and move side to side with no one able to get in front. (how many charges does he get called for because he's barreling down and someone's actually brave enough to take one?)

A quick point can turn left and right like a mouse while a fast forward can get down the court quickly but not move side to side.

It's too easy to move side to side with the ball (zig zag) with basically anyone.

I think that's a ball handling rating problem. 2k always overrates Lebron's handle. In the sim rosters I download he's given a much lower ball handling rating than 2k gives him and he doesn't move as fast.

This is what I was previously talking about. 2k needs to understand how good ratings can greatly improve gameplay, and how bad ones can greatly improve cheese potential.

If 7ft SFs this year were only able to max out ball handling to 75 and speed to 80(if they're really skinny) then that side to side tactic wouldn't work half as well.

And it's really more a problem when you play modes with a lot of maxed out guys and stars. Online everyone's maxed, so all the big men are running step for step with you...so either speed needs to be different for a huge center or they need to cap their speed significantly.
Same on My Team, all the star big men are fast and can keep up on breaks it's ridiculous. Even the "fast" centers in the NBA are no match for 99% of pg's in a race.

This is what I think should be done. I don't see any center in history(including Bill Russel/DeAndre/Dwight) having more than 80 speed, and you should only be able to get speed like that if you choose a lean MyPlayer with an athletic playstyle(that has harsher offensive and defensive caps).

Don't even get me started on those MyTeam big men. The way they are rating those super cards in MyTeam makes me fear for the game's future. 2k has never really understood how to fully utilize the ratings so I expect the stars to be overpowered, but 99 speed on a PF and 94 speed on a center is taking it way too far.

[HowDareI]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

I think that's a ball handling rating problem. 2k always overrates Lebron's handle. In the sim rosters I download he's given a much lower ball handling rating than 2k gives him and he doesn't move as fast.

This is what I was previously talking about. 2k needs to understand how good ratings can greatly improve gameplay, and how bad ones can greatly improve cheese potential.

If 7ft SFs this year were only able to max out ball handling to 75 and speed to 80(if they're really skinny) then that side to side tactic wouldn't work half as well.


This is what I think should be done. I don't see any center in history(including Bill Russel/DeAndre/Dwight) having more than 80 speed, and you should only be able to get speed like that if you choose a lean MyPlayer with an athletic playstyle(that has harsher offensive and defensive caps).

Don't even get me started on those MyTeam big men. The way they are rating those super cards in MyTeam makes me fear for the game's future. 2k has never really understood how to fully utilize the ratings so I expect the stars to be overpowered, but 99 speed on a PF and 94 speed on a center is taking it way too far.

Maybe it's ballhandling, but I think it's also the animations too. Even if you have a guy with no ballhandling ability (my center is legit, not a single slot in playmaking) you can still cross and stepback just as fast. It seems like that's tied in with speed as well as the actually ballhandling stat.

There's a whole list of things they can do to balance gameplay and a lot are easy...bigmen shouldn't have the same cross Iverson does...shouldn't even be able to be equipped. PERIOD.

And yea I've played with a lot of rosters and some really do fix the game and make it a ton better and more realistic. Even little adjustments to the game's sliders help.
But online it doesn't..that's why I basically say the gameplay needs to be first on their concern. Because you can tweak sliders offline but online? Exploiting flaws in the gameplay will always be the best tactic to cheese a win.
Of course like we been saying, having a crazy-fast center doesn't help matters but if this fast center can't dribble like AI or hit shots like Steph than it wouldn't matter if he's that quick.

And there's some pf's that are fast...but like you said they're not BIG like a true center. A guy like Anthony Davis is a great example. He's really quick up the court for a 7 footer..but he had trouble at center because he's not strong enough. If he got bigger he'd probably lose some of that quickness...so it's a tradeoff....the game needs tradeoffs.

And definitely more differentiating between positions. In this league, a PF needs a good midrange and they gotta be quicker than a center. So there you go, if you want a shooting big man that can run the court you gotta be a power forward and make the height cap 6'11/10 not 7'1.

[crizzlez]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Damn, I still see people doing the spinmove/double-dribble.

For me, I have come to accept playing against tall SF's. I have a 96 rated 6'4 PG and if teamed up with my regular crew (6'8 SF and 6"11PF) we can still compete in the Park.

I can see how the behaviour of players online can discourage so many people though.

[zfdhgh]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

I actually liked my 6'7 PG this year in 2k15, but I'm getting out-rebounded and posterized on a consistent basis by having to defend a slenderman every game.