Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

[8KB24]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

People are getting too attached to numbers and analytics. I love Chuck Barkley, btw.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I give up. It's not worth it.

Maybe 23 was right. This community really does not know basketball as well as they think they do.

Says the guy who already thinks Curry is the 2nd greatest player ever.




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[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

... what are you even talking about?

[trandoanhung1991]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

The dude is putting up 0.9 point PER MINUTE of play time with better than 50/45/90 and people still say he's not a great scorer.

He's also leading the league in secondary/hockey assist, not direct assist. Draymond is the main beneficiary of his passes, leading to 6th in NBA in assist.

I seriously have to consider what's "dominating games" means in people's eyes when they say "Curry isn't dominating games" with a straight face.

Teams don't double him off screens? What? Do you even watch GSW play? Only a few teams would not double him off screens, but instead switch. And they get burnt when the switch.

TS% doesn't tell you who's a better scorer because of FT%? That's idiotic. Is free throws somehow not part of the game? Does it not show up in the stat sheets?

Jordan averaged anywhere between 6-10 points per game from the FT line during his 2 3-peats. Curry averages 4.7 this year. If you're gonna throw out TS% because it inflates Curry's stats, then maybe Jordan's PPG should also be thrown out as a possible argument for Jordan being a good scorer because it counts FT, right?

Jordan "stat padded" from the FT line, so his numbers went up. If we remove FT numbers then Jordan's output still can't match Curry's scoring wise. Jordan at his best averaged 37PPG in 40 minutes, with 10 points from the FT line. Curry currently averages 30PPG in 34 minutes, with 4.7 points from the FT line. If we remove FT points, MJ averages 27PPG in 40 minutes, Curry 25PPG in 34 minutes.

Clearly, Curry's a way better scorer than MJ, whether you factor in FTs or not. If Curry played 40MPG, his average would be 29.4PPG WITHOUT FTs.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

The dude is putting up 0.9 point PER MINUTE of play time with better than 50/45/90 and people still say he's not a great scorer.


Teams don't double him off screens? What? Do you even watch GSW play? Only a few teams would not double him off screens, but instead switch. And they get burnt when the switch.

TS% doesn't tell you who's a better scorer because of FT%? That's idiotic. Is free throws somehow not part of the game? Does it not show up in the stat sheets?

Jordan averaged anywhere between 6-10 points per game from the FT line during his 2 3-peats. Curry averages 4.7 this year. If you're gonna throw out TS% because it inflates Curry's stats, then maybe Jordan's PPG should also be thrown out as a possible argument for Jordan being a good scorer because it counts FT, right?

Jordan "stat padded" from the FT line, so his numbers went up. If we remove FT numbers then Jordan's output still can't match Curry's scoring wise. Jordan at his best averaged 37PPG in 40 minutes, with 10 points from the FT line. Curry currently averages 30PPG in 34 minutes, with 4.7 points from the FT line. If we remove FT points, MJ averages 27PPG in 40 minutes, Curry 25PPG in 34 minutes.

Clearly, Curry's a way better scorer than MJ, whether you factor in FTs or not. If Curry played 40MPG, his average would be 29.4PPG WITHOUT FTs.

Who said he isn't a great scorer? I don't remember seeing that anywhere at all.

And no, teams don't double him off screens the way they could if his team wasn't what it is, I have league pass and have watched every GS game I've physically been able to this season. The guys around him are such great shooters, great passers that you can't game plan for just Steph.. Not in the way that teams did for LeBron in Miami, Jordan, Shaq.. Like I mentioned.

TS% is not the end all be all on who's a better scorer. I said LeBron was scoring more efficiently from the floor than Curry, and that was a true statement. Somebody said no because TS%, as if that's the only metric that matters.

For the last parts, how old are you? Because I can't imagine anyone who actually watched Jordan play call Steph a "way better" scorer.. Especially since this is the first season of his career that he's hit 25ppg, Jordan averaged 32 for his career with Chicago. While being the best defender on the floor. Without dominating the ball offensively.

I don't think you realize how much the guys around Curry effect his game. I don't think he would be this insane on any other team in the league. Yet I'm the one who doesn't watch them play?

Also, yall are putting a little too much stress on what the difference in FG% actually is. Let's say for example player A shot 50% on the year and player B shot 45% on the year. Per 20 shots a game player A is only making 1 more shot, it's not the huge gap that you and others are trying to build a case from. Is it enough to give player A a slighter boost in a shooting attribute? Sure it is. But it shouldn't be enough to factor out every other aspect of the game. For example Jordan and LeBron being far superior all around players than Steph. Thus 2K's "overall" rating still being flawed.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

I seriously have to consider what's "dominating games" means in people's eyes when they say "Curry isn't dominating games" with a straight face.

Well if you read the entire post rather than just that one line you would know that it was referencing in comparison with Shaq. And until Curry can do what he's doing now while facing constant double and triple teams then I can't make the argument that he's as dominant as Shaq. Through the three peat he was averaging 30&15 in the playoffs, and 36&15 in the finals.. While being at least doubled every trip up the court.


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[Sundown]

Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

The beginning of your post is what I was talking about. I tweaked a few things down and he was I think in the 95 range, without changing his deadly shooting abilities.. To me that is far more accurate for him on an "all time" scale.


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If a player with possibly one of the best seasons of all time, possibly the best, only rates a 95 in some of your all-time scales, then your all-time scale is broken.

Curry deserves a 97-99 for THIS season's performance. But only if it's because the overall formula is tweaked to reward the type of otherworldly skill set Curry has, and not if he's artificially boosted in areas he shouldn't be.

Also I can't believe some here are still saying "he's one of the best shooters ever". No he isn't. He's the best shooter EVER. It's not even a discussion. You're still repeating unexamined talking points from 4 years ago. The fact that we're still using qualifiers like "one of the best" in reference to his clearly unmatched shooting is telling.

And PER has problems, sure. But Curry is one of those players that PER's major problem of rewarding inefficiency does not apply to.

Curry is also killing it in RAPM, RPM, WS/48, ORTG, net RTG, basic plus minus, you name it. His impact this season has been at all-time GOAT level.

Let's put it this way. The difference between Curry's and Jordan's efficiency this season is the difference between Jordan and a chucking Iverson.

Basically Curry doubt at this point just relies on hand waving arguments based on some simplistic vague version of "doesn't look big or strong enough". And Curry sees a ton of double teams and traps. He warps the defense like no player has from beyond the perimeter. It's why GSW has such a ridiculous ORTG and why a Draymond can have the impact he does playing 4 on 3.

Steve Nash was a better offensive player than Shaq regardless of what subjective, aesthetic, goalpost moving definition we use for "dominating".

Curry is Nash on steroids.

[trandoanhung1991]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

Who said he isn't a great scorer? I don't remember seeing that anywhere at all.

And no, teams don't double him off screens the way they could if his team wasn't what it is, I have league pass and have watched every GS game I've physically been able to this season. The guys around him are such great shooters, great passers that you can't game plan for just Steph.. Not in the way that teams did for LeBron in Miami, Jordan, Shaq.. Like I mentioned.

TS% is not the end all be all on who's a better scorer. I said LeBron was scoring more efficiently from the floor than Curry, and that was a true statement. Somebody said no because TS%, as if that's the only metric that matters.

For the last parts, how old are you? Because I can't imagine anyone who actually watched Jordan play call Steph a "way better" scorer.. Especially since this is the first season of his career that he's hit 25ppg, Jordan averaged 32 for his career with Chicago. While being the best defender on the floor. Without dominating the ball offensively.

I don't think you realize how much the guys around Curry effect his game. I don't think he would be this insane on any other team in the league. Yet I'm the one who doesn't watch them play?

Also, yall are putting a little too much stress on what the difference in FG% actually is. Let's say for example player A shot 50% on the year and player B shot 45% on the year. Per 20 shots a game player A is only making 1 more shot, it's not the huge gap that you and others are trying to build a case from. Is it enough to give player A a slighter boost in a shooting attribute? Sure it is. But it shouldn't be enough to factor out every other aspect of the game. For example Jordan and LeBron being far superior all around players than Steph. Thus 2K's "overall" rating still being flawed.


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Right, I'll bite.

Which metrics are you using to confidently say that prime LeBron and prime Jordan scored more effectively than Curry this season?

Regarding his team, you do realise that both LeBron and Jordan were losers until they have a team around them right? Jordan didn't start winning until he was surrounded with talent, and LeBron started winning only in Miami. So Jordan didn't have shooters the like of Toni Kukoc, Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges? LeBron didn't have Bosh, Wade and Ray Allen?

Teams game-plan only for Jordan, Miami LeBron, Shaq? Dude what? You're telling me teams didn't game-plan for Wade and Kobe and only thought of Shaq? Teams didn't game plan for Pippen and Rodman and only thought of Jordan? Teams didn't game plan for Wade and Bosh and only thought of LeBron? Are you serious?

That's like saying teams game-planned for only Magic Johnson, or teams only game-planned for Larry Bird. Yeah, I mean Kareem, Worthy, Dennis Johnson, Kevin McHale were certainly scrubs that needed no game-planning for...

I'm 100% certain Curry this year is a way better scorer than Jordan. He plays offball much better, has a way better handle, and shoots way better than Jordan. Do you have any metrics to disprove my opinion? Because every other offensive metric indicates I'm correct. And no, personal conjectures don't count.

[SonicMage]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

Steve Nash was a better offensive player than Shaq.

Talk about comparing apples to oranges. You couldn't find two players with more separate roles for their teams, and they were both phenomenal. Trying to even compare the two isn't worth the brainpower.

I agree with you about Curry but this just threw off your whole comment for me.

[Yesh2kdone]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

[2_headedmonster]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

Talk about comparing apples to oranges. You couldn't find two players with more separate roles for their teams, and they were both phenomenal. Trying to even compare the two isn't worth the brainpower.

I agree with you about Curry but this just threw off your whole comment for me.

I think he means In the sense of points responsible for...at one point nash was responsive for roughly 40pts per night.
Conversely when you factor In Shaqs 3 assists and whatever second chance pounts his 4 offensive boards a game led to, then we have a debate.

Also it's absurd to say curry isn't dominating when he is essentially doing what shaq did as far as attention demanded only from a position on the court that's much harder to double team from when you can pass like he can.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

I said LeBron was scoring more efficiently from the floor than Curry, and that was a true statement.

That's not true at all. Curry's effective FG% blows LeBron's out of the water. He scores way more efficiently, even just from the floor since we're ignoring FTs for some reason, because 3 is more than 2.

Even his raw FG% is higher than LeBron's.

I can't imagine anyone who actually watched Jordan play call Steph a "way better" scorer.. Especially since this is the first season of his career that he's hit 25ppg

Why are you struggling to grasp the idea that long-term level of play means NOTHING in this context? It doesn't matter what Curry did before, or what he'll do later, or what Jordan did for 13 seasons with the Bulls. We're rating players in a vacuum of ONE SEASON ONLY.

Jordan averaged 32 for his career with Chicago. While being the best defender on the floor. Without dominating the ball offensively.

Michael Jordan was one of the most ball-dominant players of all time. Where are you even getting this?

Also, Prime Steve Nash was better offensively than Prime Shaq. He led offenses to record-breaking numbers. It's not even close, really.

[Scofield]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

He plays offball much better, has a way better handle, and shoots way better than Jordan. Do you have any metrics to disprove my opinion? Because every other offensive metric indicates I'm correct. And no, personal conjectures don't count.

I'm curious about these metrics you're using to determine that Curry is better off the ball and has better handles.

[Scofield]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

And you could definitely argue that 2016 Curry is better than early 90s Jordan.

Present the argument.

[Scofield]

Re: Stephen Curry in NBA 2K

Why are you struggling to grasp the idea that long-term level of play means NOTHING in this context? It doesn't matter what Curry did before, or what he'll do later, or what Jordan did for 13 seasons with the Bulls. We're rating players in a vacuum of ONE SEASON ONLY.

This nonsense. Are you really prepared to argue that the ratings aren't assigned initially with deference to how players performed the previous year/s?