Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

[BluFu]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

post patch 1.05, my observation on D is that the AI continues to really struggle with who to pick up on D. At least 5 times that I caught (and I"m sure more) in a offline my league game I played, I just had to shake my head at the nonsensical choice one of my AI defenders made in who to guard VERY EARLY in the play after a made basket.

Literally no reason they couldn't find their normal man, the CPU was not breaking, was not rushing up the court, yet for example my 4 man decides it is imperative he grab their 2 guard, of course leaving everyone scrambling, mismatches all over the place, and the middle wide open as the 5 man then runs to pick up the their 4 man.

The screening problem seems lessened but the built in choices the AI makes are just illogical and makes it very difficult to play smart D as you madly switch to try and create some semblance of a normal defense.

Pretty much this. Defensive breakdowns in the NBA happen from quick or designed plays the majority of the time. Defensive breakdowns in this game, however, can happen on every possession (from offensive players making VERY basic movements) if you're not babysitting your players.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Do some posters think Stephen Curry never finds himself open in real life?

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Of course Curry finds himself open in real life. The defense will make mistakes and that should be replicated in game as well. But the things being presented are not being simulated correctly (if that is indeed what the developers are going for).

I mean this in a respectful and genuine way. Why do you try to continually turn the conversation in a way that doesn't address the issues presented? People are showing videos and describing situation after situation that at the very least show some issues in the defensive logic. There is no reason a 4 should pick up a 2 when the defense is setting up in a normal situation. There is no defending some of the weirdness people are experiencing. I understand the defense is trying to be logical and making advanced calculations, but it seems to me that it still needs much more work in that area.

I'm just saying, man. Pick your battles, bro. I know you're trying to defend 2K as well, but we have to call a spade a spade. It's like that other thread where a few people were saying the random doubling off a great shooter at the 3 point line is "good defense" because the player with the ball was hot.

The real issue with the remark - and I'm just using this as one example - is that it turns the conversation into one about personalities, intelligence, game play ability or lack thereof among commenters.

That's not what the forums are supposed to be for. Let's discuss the game without throwing shade.

[Comduklakis]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Do some posters think Stephen Curry never finds himself open in real life?

sure. but 99 times out of 100 it is because he works to get open not because someone on the defensive side thinks leaving Curry open is the best option and they should instead rush to go make sure Iggy or Varajeo or ZaZa or McAdoo or whoever else is 1/10th the threat of Curry is.

The AI makes poor, some might term them ridiculous choices on who to grab on D when there is simply no reason for the urgency at that point in the game. I watch Andre Drummond catch up to his man on a nightly basis watching Detroit. And I can assure you that unless the other team is rushing up the ball Ish Smith or KCP are NOT suddenly deciding that DeAndre Jordan or Alex Len or Robin Lopez is the guy to guard, leaving Rose or Paul or Booker or Bledsoe either unguarded or with a mismatch.

[Comduklakis]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

The real issue with the remark - and I'm just using this as one example - is that it turns the conversation into one about personalities, intelligence, game play ability or lack thereof among commenters.

That's not what the forums are supposed to be for. Let's discuss the game without throwing shade.

I think he makes fair points. Tossing out a line like "doesn't curry get open" is no more helpful than pointing out that Dirk is to some a bit of an apologist for 2k. Neither tend to lead to a better discussion but nor are either untrue.

[fluent2332]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

I wasn't trying to throw shade or call someone an apologist. I deleted my comment anyway but it was already quoted. I just was a bit irked at that type of response when it is not addressing the actual issues people are talking about.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Meh. I've had a gutful of people on this forum rubbishing anyone with a positive opinion.

At this stage I don't really care if someone was bothered by having it pointed out to them that Curry does find himself open IRL.

[bls]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Not sure if you meant to quote me but I didnt say anything about last gen at all, lol. I do agree though, there werent this many defensive recognition issues back then...though last gen wasnt roses either-but thats a different thread.

Again, my post wasnt saying HW was at fault, or that the CPU responded correctly....it was more about why I felt what happened, happened...and I still feel that way.

I mentioned last gen basically just to say that what you saw in this clip, if it was done on last gen it wouldn't have been a problem. I agree that maybe that caused it, but I shouldn't have to guard my man full court taking the ball out of bounds for my teammates to recognize who they should be guarding.


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[Glenn33]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Defenders are unaware of their positioning. It looks like they are set up to first go to a specific position and then search for their assignment

Accurate. I think this is the problem right here.

[Bblade]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

I don't want my players to get every steal, make the proper rotation every time and defend every pick and roll perfectly but the simple breakdowns that they have defensively is inexcusable. I'm talking stuff like this



The CPU can't even properly pick up its man in transition. It's literally backpedaling out of bounds, I mean come on now. And this is with my onball/offball settings set to Auto. I give up about 5-10+ points every game just off the strength of the AI being absolutely clueless about what they're supposed to do.

Damn man. That's what frustrates me. It's like this is some simple defensive rotation. How did they mess that up??!!! What can we do to fix this?

[Comduklakis]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Meh. I've had a gutful of people on this forum rubbishing anyone with a positive opinion.

At this stage I don't really care if someone was bothered by having it pointed out to them that Curry does find himself open IRL.

No one is bothered by you pointing out that Curry gets open IRL, we are bothered because the comment has little to do with what is being discussed and the problems we are noting

[nova91]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Lol in EVERY online game for the last 2 years, the center that wins the jump-ball, will run under the opponent's basket, receive a pass and dunk while you desperately want ANY of your player to close out to a player underneath your basket

Literally this is the first basket in EVERY game I play, no matter if I win, or lose the jumpball.

Defenders are unaware of their positioning. It looks like they are set up to first go to a specific position and then search for their assignment

This is a big issue. CPU players go to a specific spot every time and wait for their man to eventually get there to pick them up. They don't stop the ball in transition, they rarely contest shots at the rim in transition, it usually a half-assed attempt at drawing a charge. They don't position themselves well at all. The teammate AI gets to their spot at all costs, they will walk through you and your match up to get to their spot leaving your man wide open.

[bo_jax2000]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

I don't want my players to get every steal, make the proper rotation every time and defend every pick and roll perfectly but the simple breakdowns that they have defensively is inexcusable. I'm talking stuff like this







The CPU can't even properly pick up its man in transition. It's literally backpedaling out of bounds, I mean come on now. And this is with my onball/offball settings set to Auto. I give up about 5-10+ points every game just off the strength of the AI being absolutely clueless about what they're supposed to do.

Is that still happening after patch 1.05? Because the gif posted was made before the patch came out.

That gif was posted on another site October 29. The patch was released on November 6.

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-o...38575/page-181. Post #2707

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Is that still happening after patch 1.05? Because the gif posted was made before the patch came out.

That gif was posted on another site October 29. The patch was released on November 6.

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-o...38575/page-181. Post #2707

This most definitely still happens after the patch.

And I posted that there and in the PNO thread on here as well.

[BegBy]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Is that still happening after patch 1.05? Because the gif posted was made before the patch came out.

That gif was posted on another site October 29. The patch was released on November 6.

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-o...38575/page-181. Post #2707

Yes, it is. Blown assignments are one thing, and if I'm honest, I'd like to see more of them as it is a very common thing in each and every NBA game. Defenders, both cpu and cpu controlled human defenders, just straight up guarding the camera crew, the scorer's table and other wonky shenanigans isn't cool. These aren't contextually accurate blown assignments. They are just plain terrible.

Again, the absolute best defender and best teams blow assignments all the time. Probably a lot more than people would think, but these types of plays (like in the gif) happen in game a lot. Quite often in fact. If that were to happen in the NBA more than once, the coach would probably have a massive stroke. If it were to happen in the NBA as often as it does in game - I fear there would be a lot of funerals.

It's like these defenders are Andrew Bynum on his absolute worst "Guess who ran outta f*#ks today" day x 10.