What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

[CaseIH]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

Voted no, but game is overall fun to play, but its not what they make the game out to be before it comes out.

Personally until they quite catering to the online whiners this game will continue to be lacking in realism. I truly believe the reason charging calls are basically non existent is because if they made it realistic, then all the crybaby online players would be whining about charging being exploited, and its too easy to draw a charge. I think its also why we dont see a more realistic in the turnover department too.

As long as the game makers make a game based towards online players, its will be lacking in being a true simulation of basketball, because they are always tryin to fix a exploit by some idiots, who all they do is look for a unrealistic way to play to win, or the devs are tinkering with shooting because some cry its too easy, and some cry its too hard, among 1 of the many things people are constant moaning about.

Hey I get it, your going to cater to where you make the most money, thats just good business, just dont falsley hype up the game as a simulation of basketball, lets call it what it is, a arcade made game of pickup basketball, and not a simulation of NBA basketball.

Online gaming has really hurt video game basketball in so many ways imo. Maybe 1 of these days, a video game will come out that will replicate a true sim experience for those who arent interested in online play. Really thought at 1 point online gaming would end up helping the sim experience for us offline Association guys, but unfortunately thats not been the case.

[awg811]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

For one, the new "emphasis on collisions and physicality" they implemented feels like it wasn't nearly tested enough, and had a ripple effect through the entire gameplay. Players bumping into each other made plays super slow to initiate to the point that there's a huge amount of 3 second violations caused when your player can't get through the paint, and it made the poor transition defense issue even worse as big men trying to sprint back on D constantly bump off both teammates and opposing players leading to the other team's bigs getting easy fastbreak dunks.

I like the idea of collisions and physicality, however it is tuned too high. Especially the bumps from your own players.
Rarely, in real basketball, do you see teammates bumping into each other for a full 2 seconds and taking each other out of the play.

This, all of the animations especially the terrible ones that you are forced into because people spam the steal button with no foul, and all of the suck ins, screens, defense, boxouts, rebounds, blocks, and even passes break the game.

Animations:

Animations are so flawed that they deserve their own thread. So I'll just leave this alone for now.Spam the steal button:

Why are people able to spam the steal button and force you into an animation but almost never get called for a foul?
This is especially terrible in the post!

Suck Ins (I don't know what else to call them):

Screens:

Why are we sucked into screens?
You can be past the screen and be sucked back into it. At times you get sucked in to one side and then sucked into the other side!

Defense:

Why do I get sucked into other peoples men when I'm on ball guarding mine?
Why can I not turn this feature off?
I don't need your help pulling me in different directions than I'm trying to go. Especially, when it's not even my man!

Boxouts:

Why, when hitting the boxout button, will your player be sucked back sometimes 5 feet?
And why can I have someone boxed out with no opportunity to get the rebound, yet somehow they do? This also goes with rebounds below.

Rebounds:

Why are we sucked in the direction of the ball on rebounds?
If you want to make your game "respecting the users input 100% of the time", why are people sucked 8 feet in the direction of the ball to snag a rebound that no human possibly could grab?
If someone mistimes or misjudges where the rebound will come off the rim, then that someone shouldn't get the rebound!

Blocks:

Why are people sucked from so far away if they attempt a block on someone that they would be unable to block, and sometimes (a lot) still get the block?

There's so many flaws with blocking that it's a thread of it's own, or should be.

Passes:

"Improved catch on point logic ensures that receivers catch passes on their desired spots rather than veering off in a bad direction"

My desired spot is never out of bounds, where I am often sucked to.

There are many more issues with this game, but I feel these are the most game breaking.

[EddieK76]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

Boxouts:

Why, when hitting the boxout button, will your player be sucked back sometimes 5 feet?
And why can I have someone boxed out with no opportunity to get the rebound, yet somehow they do? This also goes with rebounds below.

Rebounds:

Why are we sucked in the direction of the ball on rebounds?
If you want to make your game "respecting the users input 100% of the time", why are people sucked 8 feet in the direction of the ball to snag a rebound that no human possibly could grab?
If someone mistimes or misjudges where the rebound will come off the rim, then that someone shouldn't get the rebound!
.

When I see the boxing out you move backwards to locate your guy just like you would IRL. I know if you press the box out button but you aren't near your guy the game will attempt to put you near a guy to box out just like you would in real life.

It's missing the animation of forearm into chest and pivot into box out but that's alright at least it's locating a guy for you to box out once you press the box out button.

Just like in real life if you box someone out it doesn't prohibit offensive rebounds just lessens their chance.

[thormessiah]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

7 patches later the game is moderately fun to play offline, not fun at all online. I still get annoyed by stuff the CPU gets away with (speed boosts, grabbing, getting the perfect contact/contest animation without getting called for a foul) and there is definitely room for improvement. Once again, my biggest concern with this game is that the same problems from last year are still prevalent. If I'm a game developer making a new title for a yearly series THE LEAST I can do is correct the mistakes the previous game had.

[awg811]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

Not to rehash old posts, or derail the thread, but I have been looking for what NBA 2k calls 'pulling the chair" and what really is "pulling the chair".

NBA 2k's video shows that the defender is guarding a post up off ball and then swim moves him, ends up in front of him, and the post up player falls to the ground.
I have never seen one example of this being called "pulling the chair".

A few on here claimed that it is "pulling the chair", but only provided their opinion with no examples.

Here is the definition of "pulling the chair" from the NBA rule book.

"On this play, the post defender places one forearm onto the back of the offensive player with the ball and his back to the basket".
"The defender then simply backs away from the offensive player, “pulling the chair” as it is commonly known as".

http://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-post-defense-forearm-and-hand-with-bent-elbow-defender-pulls-the-chair/

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I have never seen anything but this be called "puling the chair".

Can someone provide me with an example or definition of "pulling the chair" that differs from this?

[ViolenceFight]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

^It's both. "Pulling The Chair" doesn't refer to the specific action, the most common form is what you posted. But it refers to the idea/concept. "Pulling the "Chair" is any time you leave a guy who is using you as a counterbalance and he falls.

Basically, If I'm using you to hold position, and you move so I fall, you have "pulled the chair out from under me". It can be on or offball.

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[awg811]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

^It's both. "Pulling The Chair" doesn't refer to the specific action, the most common form is what you posted. But it refers to the idea/concept. "Pulling the "Chair" is any time you leave a guy who is using you as a counterbalance and he falls.

Basically, If I'm using you to hold position, and you move so I fall, you have "pulled the chair out from under me". It can be on or offball.

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I don't necessarily disagree with you, however, can you give me evidence of this?
I mean, written or video evidence of the way that 2k calls pulling the chair and what it seems that the NBA defines as pulling the chair.

The NBA rule book explains it very clearly, pulling the chair is an on ball move.

I mean a dunk is a dunk, but a windmill is a specific kind of dunk.
Is that what we are talking about here?
One is called pulling the chair and the other is still in essence pulling the chair just in a different way.

My only issue is that I cannot find any evidence of pulling the chair as anything other than what I have shown.

I'm not trying to say that I am right and you are wrong. It's more for myself to expand my knowledge.

Either way or both, I wish that I could get the move, either as 2k describes it or as the link that I provided shows, to work. Preferably BOTH.

If anyone knows exactly how to get this move to work in 2k, I'd be very appreciative of an explanation either here or through private message.

[ViolenceFight]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, however, can you give me evidence of this?
I mean, written or video evidence of the way that 2k calls pulling the chair and what it seems that the NBA defines as pulling the chair.

The NBA rule book explains it very clearly, pulling the chair is an on ball move.

I mean a dunk is a dunk, but a windmill is a specific kind of dunk.
Is that what we are talking about here?
One is called pulling the chair and the other is still in essence pulling the chair just in a different way.

My only issue is that I cannot find any evidence of pulling the chair as anything other than what I have shown.

I'm not trying to say that I am right and you are wrong. It's more for myself to expand my knowledge.

Either way or both, I wish that I could get the move, either as 2k describes it or as the link that I provided shows, to work. Preferably BOTH.

If anyone knows exactly how to get this move to work in 2k, I'd be very appreciative of an explanation either here or through private message.

http://basketball.lifetips.com//cat/8884/basketball-post-player-tips/index.html

Google is your friend. Stated here: "Pulling the chair is letting them make contact, and then moving letting them fall". It's not specified on or off ball. I understand why you think it's limited to on ball, but it's really just a term for moving once a person puts too much weight on you/uses you for balance.

Also, in your post, the official rules/definition does not specify on or off ball. The video shows on ball, but never implies the term is limited to that

[jax01]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

"Did 2k deliver on their claims?"

100%? I'd say no.

Somewhat? Sure. Based on pre-patch vs post-patch gameplay too.


The player archetypes was a good concept, sub-par result. There is more parity, but not to the level that was needed. But that's up to the community, they're going to always gravitate to the "best build" and copy each other. This has caused some unbalanced gameplay because of OP builds.

Guess with 2k17 for me, the jury's still out. Feature-wise, it's way better than 2k16. Gameplay wise, I need to see more gameplay balance. Control (dribbling) is definitely a step up. Perimeter defense needs better control.

MyPARK I think took a step down and continues to become more and more arcade and less basketball-logic orientated, probably til it reaches NBA JAM level and guys are jumping 80 feet in the air.

I wish the commitment to Sim was bigger than the commitment to VC models. Does skill matter more than player archetype? That's something that needs to be worked on. I think 2k17 has been the year of the "player build" over actual skill, or at least having a huge impact vs how far skill can take you.

2k18 wishlist: less grind, more testing, more gameplay balance, skill over build, better foot planting on defense.

[awg811]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

http://basketball.lifetips.com//cat/...ips/index.html

Google is your friend. Stated here: "Pulling the chair is letting them make contact, and then moving letting them fall". It's not specified on or off ball. I understand why you think it's limited to on ball, but it's really just a term for moving once a person puts too much weight on you/uses you for balance.

Also, in your post, the official rules/definition does not specify on or off ball. The video shows on ball, but never implies the term is limited to that

I've used google and never seen anything but what I've described as pulling the chair.

In your definition the guy says "Use your quickness to disrupt him, as the post entry pass comes, slip around him and get your fingers on it".
Slipping around him isn't pulling the chair.

Further, your definition says "Or you can do the Rick Mahorn trick and "pull the chair" on him".

Here google is your friend. Rick Mahorn pulling the chair shows Rick Mahorn pulling the chair. Not Rick Mahorn playing offball defense.

Pulling the chair is a specific move within on ball defense.

In the definition that you provided it is simply talking about different tactics that you can use against a bigger player both on ball and off.
Nowhere does it go in depth on the different moves or explain them.

Also, in your post, the official rules/definition does not specify on or off ball. The video shows on ball, but never implies the term is limited to that.

In the definition that I provided from the NBA rule book, it CLEARLY states "On this play, the post defender places one forearm onto the back of the offensive player with the ball and his back to the basket". As I highlighted previously.

[ViolenceFight]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

I've used google and never seen anything but what I've described as pulling the chair.

In your definition the guy says "Use your quickness to disrupt him, as the post entry pass comes, slip around him and get your fingers on it".
Slipping around him isn't pulling the chair.

Further, your definition says "Or you can do the Rick Mahorn trick and "pull the chair" on him".

Here google is your friend. Rick Mahorn pulling the chair shows Rick Mahorn pulling the chair. Not Rick Mahorn playing offball defense.

Pulling the chair is a specific move within on ball defense.

In the definition that you provided it is simply talking about different tactics that you can use against a bigger player both on ball and off.
Nowhere does it go in depth on the different moves or explain them.


In the definition that I provided from the NBA rule book, it CLEARLY states "On this play, the post defender places one forearm onto the back of the offensive player with the ball and his back to the basket". As I highlighted previously.

....look. I'm not going to argue, I was always taught it means both. Let's stop derailing this thread over something that's petty.

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[awg811]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

Would you say that a windmill dunk and a 360 dunk are the same thing?
They are both dunks.
But they are specifically named because they are specific types of dunks.

My argument is that pulling the chair is a specific on ball defensive move and I've not found anything to disprove that argument.

I'm not trying to derail my own thread.
But, if i am correct, which I may not be, it's another in the list of things that 2k got wrong.

However, my main concern is to learn how to do whatever the move is called that 2k describes as pulling the chair.

I'm a big man and it would be a great tool to add to my arsenal!

[ViolenceFight]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

Would you say that a windmill dunk and a 360 dunk are the same thing?
They are both dunks.
But they are specifically named because they are specific types of dunks.

My argument is that pulling the chair is a specific on ball defensive move and I've not found anything to disprove that argument.

I'm not trying to derail my own thread.
But, if i am correct, which I may not be, it's another in the list of things that 2k got wrong.

However, my main concern is to learn how to do whatever the move is called that 2k describes as pulling the chair.

I'm a big man and it would be a great tool to add to my arsenal!

Yeah. I've seen it done once in 2k16. I've been trying to do it since being small, it's a good option to deter posting bigs.

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[awg811]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

Yeah. I've seen it done once in 2k16. I've been trying to do it since being small, it's a good option to deter posting bigs.

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If you figure it out please let me know.

[Diceman7]

Re: What 2kSport told us we could expect from NBA 2k17. Did they deliver?

Let's get this thread back on topic. 2k your game is terrible. Will the super hype train be back before launching next year's game? I don't think it would be wise. The 2k hype train has turned into a well...train wreck. This game would probably have NHL type sales if it wasn't for mypark. It's the only reason this game gets the notoriety and it appears they've ruined this mode also. Does 2k turn it around for '18? Honestly, I don't think so. They've hit their high water mark and it's downhill from here. The reason why is nothing ever gets resolved and it never moves forward since coming to next gen. The games year to year look different and have nice additions. But, at the end of the day, the 2k core gameplay/logic/function is just bad; this has been consistent. The "cheese" phenomenon that everyone complains about is intrinsic to the build and structure of the game apparently.

I'm very curious what Live puts out and I think a lot people in the community are too. I've played plenty of Live and sure it's not as pretty as 2k, but it has some basketball in the game. If you use the all controls available and are proficient you have success (online). I believe a lot of people that bought Live barely gave it a chance. But it's true that Live looks clunky and awful at times.